Recent Changes for "Church of the Divide" - Davis Wiki

Church of the Divide

JasonAller — 2008-08-10 23:05:51

link fixes

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- They have gained notoriety in ["Davis"] for picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis because the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], the Yolo County recorder and member of FBC at the time, for issuing "Certificates of Inequality" to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses on ["Valentine's Day"] ["2007"]. What really peeved them was when Pastor Snyder said that Freddie would always be welcome at the church.	+ They have gained notoriety in ["Davis"] for picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis because the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke ["Users/FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], the Yolo County recorder and member of FBC at the time, for issuing "Certificates of Inequality" to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses on ["Valentine's Day"] ["2007"]. What really peeved them was when Pastor Snyder said that Freddie would always be welcome at the church.
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- ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664 News10.net] -- This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs smh.com.au] --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://gaymarriageno.org/truthtrucks.htm gaymarriageno.org] -- Should gaymarriageno, also known as cotd, be telling people not to vote for Democrats? --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/antinews.htm execpc.com] -- It appears Robert Rudnick had more serious problems in Alabama before being arrested in Minnesota. --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070228-113749-875/r.htm Washington Times] -- Do you remember Tim Bueler from previous posts? --["JerryRafter"] - * The Rudnick article is the eighth from the bottom of the previous posting. Robert made the same page as the murders of the gay couple from Red Bluff and the arsonists of the Jewish Temple in Sacramento. --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://www.villagelife.com/articles/2005/03/10/news/b0309_n1_gay.text villagelife.com] -- this article shows Ron Brock as a cotd member --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://www.heartstrong.org/HeartStrong/PlacervillePhotos.html heartstrong.org] -- This website has pictures of Otterstads and the Brauns (Braun's minor children are present). Darling little children amongst such hate is very hard to understand. Pictured mostly on right hand side of page are Dick Otterstad(the devil made me do it), The elderly woman is Carolyn O'Connor, the family is Todd and Beth Braun and their three children. --["JerryRafter"] - * [http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0512/opa050178-1227.htm lawlibrary] -- This is a Minnesota Supreme Court case concerning Luke Otterstad and Robert Rudnick. The case has been presented and is waiting a ruling. I've often wondered how the Otterstads who have a brush clearing business in Albany, Ca (Oak Hills Brush Clearing @925 Adams St.-previously know as Otterstad's Brush Clearing of the same address) can afford to take seemingly minor cases all the way to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Also take note that Luke's partner in this incident is Robert A. Rudnick. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664 News10.net] -- This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs smh.com.au] --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://gaymarriageno.org/truthtrucks.htm gaymarriageno.org] -- Should gaymarriageno, also known as cotd, be telling people not to vote for Democrats? --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/antinews.htm execpc.com] -- It appears Robert Rudnick had more serious problems in Alabama before being arrested in Minnesota. --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070228-113749-875/r.htm Washington Times] -- Do you remember Tim Bueler from previous posts? --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * The Rudnick article is the eighth from the bottom of the previous posting. Robert made the same page as the murders of the gay couple from Red Bluff and the arsonists of the Jewish Temple in Sacramento. --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.villagelife.com/articles/2005/03/10/news/b0309_n1_gay.text villagelife.com] -- this article shows Ron Brock as a cotd member --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.heartstrong.org/HeartStrong/PlacervillePhotos.html heartstrong.org] -- This website has pictures of Otterstads and the Brauns (Braun's minor children are present). Darling little children amongst such hate is very hard to understand. Pictured mostly on right hand side of page are Dick Otterstad(the devil made me do it), The elderly woman is Carolyn O'Connor, the family is Todd and Beth Braun and their three children. --["Users/JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0512/opa050178-1227.htm lawlibrary] -- This is a Minnesota Supreme Court case concerning Luke Otterstad and Robert Rudnick. The case has been presented and is waiting a ruling. I've often wondered how the Otterstads who have a brush clearing business in Albany, Ca (Oak Hills Brush Clearing @925 Adams St.-previously know as Otterstad's Brush Clearing of the same address) can afford to take seemingly minor cases all the way to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Also take note that Luke's partner in this incident is Robert A. Rudnick. --["Users/JerryRafter"]
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- ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["CarlosOverstreet"]	+ ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["Users/CarlosOverstreet"]
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- ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["KenjiYamada"]	+ ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["Users/KenjiYamada"]
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- ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["SteveOstrowski"]	+ ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["Users/SteveOstrowski"]
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- ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["StevenDaubert"] - * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["JamesHaile"]	+ ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["Users/StevenDaubert"] + * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["Users/JamesHaile"]
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- ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["DanStanford"] - * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["WilliamLewis"] - * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["StevenDaubert"]	+ ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["Users/DanStanford"] + * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["Users/WilliamLewis"] + * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["Users/StevenDaubert"]
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- ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"]	+ ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["Users/JamesHaile"]
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- ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"]	+ ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["Users/DanStanford"]
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- ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"]	+ ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["Users/StevenDaubert"]
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- ''2007-03-01 10:38:58'' [[nbsp]] So as long as I shred Luke Otterstad and COTD, I'm good, but to biblically address issues like them gets my comments canned? --["MarieGruca"] - * No, to discuss ''them'' is fine... support them if you'd like. To debate their message is what doesn't really have a place here. Tell us what they've done that's good, what they believe in. That's discussing ''them''. To put it another way, on an entry about the local high school football team, you could discuss their budget or their new uniforms. When the discussion is over, the facts are picked out and incorporated into the entry and the discussion deleted. You could even state an opinion or review about the football team. But discussing football in general (if grass or astroturf is better or talking about the Superbowl) is not related directly to the subject at hand... it isn't about the actual high school football team. I (and others) would love you to support CotD by telling us what they have done or provide more information about who they are. To put it another way, the CotD makes signs. But debating here about the best way to paint and construct signs would be off-topic. In the same way, debating the biblical support (for '''or''' against) their message is off-topic. That debate isn't about them, it's about you and the people you're debating with, and has nothing to do with the actual Church of the Divide. I hope you understand. --["JabberWokky" jw]	+ ''2007-03-01 10:38:58'' [[nbsp]] So as long as I shred Luke Otterstad and COTD, I'm good, but to biblically address issues like them gets my comments canned? --["Users/MarieGruca"] + * No, to discuss ''them'' is fine... support them if you'd like. To debate their message is what doesn't really have a place here. Tell us what they've done that's good, what they believe in. That's discussing ''them''. To put it another way, on an entry about the local high school football team, you could discuss their budget or their new uniforms. When the discussion is over, the facts are picked out and incorporated into the entry and the discussion deleted. You could even state an opinion or review about the football team. But discussing football in general (if grass or astroturf is better or talking about the Superbowl) is not related directly to the subject at hand... it isn't about the actual high school football team. I (and others) would love you to support CotD by telling us what they have done or provide more information about who they are. To put it another way, the CotD makes signs. But debating here about the best way to paint and construct signs would be off-topic. In the same way, debating the biblical support (for '''or''' against) their message is off-topic. That debate isn't about them, it's about you and the people you're debating with, and has nothing to do with the actual Church of the Divide. I hope you understand. --["Users/JabberWokky" jw]
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- ''2007-03-02 09:59:32'' [[nbsp]] Jerry - thanks for all the background. Do you have anything more specific about their activities in Davis? --["JabberWokky"] - * ''2007-03-02 10:27:59'' [[nbsp]] Nothing you don't already know about Davis and Woodland. Don't be too surprised if the cotd doesn't show up in town some day with 500 Russians and Ukraines as they did in Sacramento. That's a whole other story. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-03-02 09:59:32'' [[nbsp]] Jerry - thanks for all the background. Do you have anything more specific about their activities in Davis? --["Users/JabberWokky"] + * ''2007-03-02 10:27:59'' [[nbsp]] Nothing you don't already know about Davis and Woodland. Don't be too surprised if the cotd doesn't show up in town some day with 500 Russians and Ukraines as they did in Sacramento. That's a whole other story. --["Users/JerryRafter"]
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- ''2007-03-04 11:58:31'' [[nbsp]] http://nutritionalprograms.com/NSP_Testimonials_MorerFromClients.htm This one made me laugh out loud. Dick Otterstad is so concerned about the sanctity of gay marriage but his own marriage seems to be a failure. If you run into Dick at one of his protests on gay marriage, ask him why he lives in Garden Valley and his wife lives in Walnut Creek. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-03-04 11:58:31'' [[nbsp]] http://nutritionalprograms.com/NSP_Testimonials_MorerFromClients.htm This one made me laugh out loud. Dick Otterstad is so concerned about the sanctity of gay marriage but his own marriage seems to be a failure. If you run into Dick at one of his protests on gay marriage, ask him why he lives in Garden Valley and his wife lives in Walnut Creek. --["Users/JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

Themessenger — 2008-07-13 07:38:57

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	+ ------ + ''2008-07-13 08:38:57'' [[nbsp]] This "church" is extremely dangerous. I called dick otterstad out...I suspect that he is a pedophile and am concerned greatly for the welfare of the children. I asked him about touching kids...at this point in the conversation, Dick stopped filming imediatley and then proceeded to tell me i was being judgemental...He never denied it, in fact, he fell off the curb(he seemed to have been drinking)backed up into his truck..got inside and began what looked like as erasing the claims that i made off the video.as I walked away, one of the young children told me,"your going to have to prove it". I found all this very disturbing. Why would a child say that?? It is only a matter of time before law enforcement intervens on this sick group of people. David koresh, jim jones...I hope someone begins looking into these allegations. Thank you. --["Users/Themessenger"]

Church of the Divide

saveARC — 2008-05-24 22:42:45

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	+ ------ + ''2008-05-24 23:42:45'' [[nbsp]] Luke Otterstad from the Church of the Divide is up to the same things this semester. He has again used the picture of a trans-gender student to fan the flames of intolerance and has motivated a conservative majority to get out and vote. Luke Otterstad defends their actions before the ARC Board of Justice. See www.savearc.com for all the latest links and information. --["Users/saveARC"]

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2008-02-16 15:54:09

Combined two sequential comments, added link to website

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- ''2008-02-16 15:26:27'' [[nbsp]] For what is going on out at American River College please see www.savearc.com. There is a compilation of information regarding the Church of the Divide. Save ARC owes this site a very appriciative "THANK YOU" for giving us an idea of who and what these few individuals represent in our community. --["Users/saveARC"] - ------ - ''2008-02-16 15:39:05'' [[nbsp]] It should also be reported that the ARC Inter-Club Council performed symbolic marriage ceremonies for any couple who wished to marry as a fund raiser during "Club Day" on Feb 14, 2008. It was closely observed and video recorded by at least nine supporters of the COD's philosophy. --["Users/saveARC"]	+ ''2008-02-16 15:26:27'' [[nbsp]] For what is going on out at American River College please see [http://www.savearc.com]. There is a compilation of information regarding the Church of the Divide. Save ARC owes this site a very appriciative "THANK YOU" for giving us an idea of who and what these few individuals represent in our community. + + It should also be reported that the ARC Inter-Club Council performed symbolic marriage ceremonies for any couple who wished to marry as a fund raiser during "Club Day" on Feb 14, 2008. It was closely observed and video recorded by at least nine supporters of the COD's philosophy. --["Users/saveARC"]

Church of the Divide

saveARC — 2008-02-16 15:39:05

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	+ ------ + ''2008-02-16 15:39:05'' [[nbsp]] It should also be reported that the ARC Inter-Club Council performed symbolic marriage ceremonies for any couple who wished to marry as a fund raiser during "Club Day" on Feb 14, 2008. It was closely observed and video recorded by at least nine supporters of the COD's philosophy. --["Users/saveARC"]

Church of the Divide

saveARC — 2008-02-16 15:26:27

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	+ ------ + ''2008-02-16 15:26:27'' [[nbsp]] For what is going on out at American River College please see www.savearc.com. There is a compilation of information regarding the Church of the Divide. Save ARC owes this site a very appriciative "THANK YOU" for giving us an idea of who and what these few individuals represent in our community. --["Users/saveARC"]

Church of the Divide

schultkl — 2007-12-03 00:03:37

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	+ ------ + ''2007-12-03 00:03:37'' [[nbsp]] Luke Otterstad of The Church of the Divide has tabled at American River College the fall semester of 2007. Their "Christian Civilization Club" lost it's license after comments characterized as inflammatory against Muslims. See: + + http://media.aofonline.org/arc-current-2007-10-24-christian-civilization-club.pdf + http://media.aofonline.org/arc-current-2007-11-07-christian-civilization-club.pdf + http://media.aofonline.org/arc-current-2007-11-21-christian-civilization-club.pdf + + The controversy helped elect eight candidates campaigning for "Christian values" and against "humanistic bias" to student council seats in the fall 2007 elections. --["Users/schultkl"]

Church of the Divide

JerryRafter — 2007-07-13 14:21:39

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	+ ------ + ''2007-07-13 15:21:39'' [[nbsp]] Sacramento Bee article 7/13/07 http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/270787.html + Florin Ciuriuc was the Director of the Slavic Community Center in Sacramento. Read his quote. + for the past several years the COTD has been furnishing the Russian/Ukraine group with signs and shirts denouncing gays and lesbians. These people have been showing up, along with COTD members, at virtually every event put on by gay and lesbian organizations in the Greater Sacramneto area. --["Users/JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

JoshFernandez — 2007-05-08 12:38:53

added a pic of me and the Brockster

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	+ + [[Image(MeandRon.jpg, thumbnail, 250, "Shootin' the breeze with Ronald Brock as he explains the dangers of homosexuality")]]

Church of the Divide

JoshFernandez — 2007-05-08 12:36:11

Upload of image MeandRon.jpg.

Church of the Divide

JoshFernandez — 2007-05-08 11:45:31

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	+ ------ + ''2007-05-08 11:45:31'' [[nbsp]] I sat in Ronald Brock's anti-gay truck while he explained to me that he "of course" had homosexual feelings when he was young. Then he offered me a bagel. + + Here's a clip: + + Brock said the message is simple: If you claim to know God, you must fight your homosexual tendencies. + "Especially in our youth, we've all gone through that floundering around," Brock said. " (But) just because you have a weakness, do you give in to that weakness? + "You may like it at the moment, but there are consequences." --["Users/JoshFernandez"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-05-08 11:35:41

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- The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely around ten members. The "pastor" revolves depending on whose house services are being held at, but the pastor is always male cause thats what the good book says.	+ The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely around ten members. The "pastor" revolves depending on whose house services are being held at, but the pastor is always male due to their interpretation of scripture.

Church of the Divide

StevenDaubert — 2007-05-08 11:31:41

always male pastor

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- The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely around ten members.	+ The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely around ten members. The "pastor" revolves depending on whose house services are being held at, but the pastor is always male cause thats what the good book says.

Church of the Divide

StevenDaubert — 2007-05-08 11:30:47

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-05-08 11:30:47'' [[nbsp]] COTD is at it again, a principal in sac suspended students who were wearing shirts with the bible verse that states homosexuals go to hell. Go go principal, as those shirts are designed to intimated others, and shouldn't be allowed in the school. Also those kids are under 18 and don't have the right to free speech. The bee article briefly touched upon COTD anticts in Davis. --["Users/StevenDaubert"]

Church of the Divide

JerryRafter — 2007-03-04 11:58:31

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-04 11:58:31'' [[nbsp]] http://nutritionalprograms.com/NSP_Testimonials_MorerFromClients.htm This one made me laugh out loud. Dick Otterstad is so concerned about the sanctity of gay marriage but his own marriage seems to be a failure. If you run into Dick at one of his protests on gay marriage, ask him why he lives in Garden Valley and his wife lives in Walnut Creek. --["JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2007-03-04 07:19:10

I meant to hit preview, dammit. Moved one last one up.

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-	+ * [http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0512/opa050178-1227.htm lawlibrary] -- This is a Minnesota Supreme Court case concerning Luke Otterstad and Robert Rudnick. The case has been presented and is waiting a ruling. I've often wondered how the Otterstads who have a brush clearing business in Albany, Ca (Oak Hills Brush Clearing @925 Adams St.-previously know as Otterstad's Brush Clearing of the same address) can afford to take seemingly minor cases all the way to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Also take note that Luke's partner in this incident is Robert A. Rudnick. --["JerryRafter"]
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- ------ - ''2007-03-02 09:03:18'' [[nbsp]] http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0512/opa050178-1227.htm This is a Minnesota Supreme Court case concerning Luke Otterstad and Robert Rudnick. The case has been presented and is waiting a ruling. I've often wondered how the Otterstads who have a brush clearing business in Albany, Ca (Oak Hills Brush Clearing @925 Adams St.-previously know as Otterstad's Brush Clearing of the same address) can afford to take seemingly minor cases all the way to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Also take note that Luke's partner in this incident is Robert A. Rudnick. --["JerryRafter"] - ------

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2007-03-04 07:17:31

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	+ =Jerry's Research= + ''The following is Jerry Rafter's research. It should be rewritten and incorporated into the article above and the removed from this section'' + + ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664 News10.net] -- This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs smh.com.au] --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://gaymarriageno.org/truthtrucks.htm gaymarriageno.org] -- Should gaymarriageno, also known as cotd, be telling people not to vote for Democrats? --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/antinews.htm execpc.com] -- It appears Robert Rudnick had more serious problems in Alabama before being arrested in Minnesota. --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070228-113749-875/r.htm Washington Times] -- Do you remember Tim Bueler from previous posts? --["JerryRafter"] + * The Rudnick article is the eighth from the bottom of the previous posting. Robert made the same page as the murders of the gay couple from Red Bluff and the arsonists of the Jewish Temple in Sacramento. --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.villagelife.com/articles/2005/03/10/news/b0309_n1_gay.text villagelife.com] -- this article shows Ron Brock as a cotd member --["JerryRafter"] + * [http://www.heartstrong.org/HeartStrong/PlacervillePhotos.html heartstrong.org] -- This website has pictures of Otterstads and the Brauns (Braun's minor children are present). Darling little children amongst such hate is very hard to understand. Pictured mostly on right hand side of page are Dick Otterstad(the devil made me do it), The elderly woman is Carolyn O'Connor, the family is Todd and Beth Braun and their three children. --["JerryRafter"] + +
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- ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"] - * Wow. Thank you for the info. Very revealing. --["JamesHaile"] - ''2007-02-28 10:41:15'' [[nbsp]] Jerry, can you post any sources that verify your information? --["DanStanford"] - * I was bored and googled the names. Look around at the sites. You can find pro sites and con sites on the same person. kinda sketch --["StevenDaubert"] - ------ - ''2007-02-28 16:24:56'' [[nbsp]] Does anyone else want further information aside from Luke Otterstad oops! I mean Dan Stanford? --["JerryRafter"] - * Anything else is useful. I'd like to flesh this entry out all that I can once I'm done with midterms on friday. --["WilliamLewis" wl] - ------ - ''2007-02-28 21:50:58'' [[nbsp]] Interesting how you've removed all my comments...what are you afraid of, besides the Truth? --["MarieGruca"] - * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not necessarily a theological debate. As for the Truth only I know the Truth. --["SteveOstrowski"] - * Marie, your comments were not about the Church of the Divide. They were about generalities. This comment thread will also be pruned in the next few days, as ''it'' has nothing to do with the Church of the Divide (it's us talking about why your comments were removed). It would be wonderful if you could add information or perspective specifically related to the CotD, and I (and many others here) would make darn sure it wasn't deleted. It's like standing up in a city meeting about liquor licenses and talking about how to build a still. They might be related, but it's still off the topic at hand. There's no direct persecution of you, just simple housekeeping by removing the off topic commentary. --["JabberWokky" jw] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 10:13:28'' [[nbsp]] www.villagelife.com/articles/2005/03/10/news/b0309_n1_gay.text this article shows Ron Brock as a cotd member --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 10:20:02'' [[nbsp]] www.heartstrong.org/HeartStrong/PlacervillePhotos.html This website has pictures of Otterstads and the Brauns (Braun's minor children are present). Darling little children amongst such hate is very hard to understand. Pictured mostly on right hand side of page are Dick Otterstad(the devil made me do it), The elderly woman is Carolyn O'Connor, the family is Todd and Beth Braun and their three children. --["JerryRafter"] - ------
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- ''2007-03-01 14:32:01'' [[nbsp]] [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs] --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:05:19'' [[nbsp]] [http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664] This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:06:37'' [[nbsp]] More later if anyone is still interested. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:12:01'' [[nbsp]] I'm still interested. You are posting excellent info and references. --["JamesHaile"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:27:24'' [[nbsp]] The news10 entry seems to be chopped off. James, did you get it ? If not, I'll redo. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:33:52'' [[nbsp]] http://gaymarriageno.org/truthtrucks.htm Should gaymarriageno, also known as cotd, be telling people not to vote for Democrats? --["JerryRafter"]
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- ''2007-03-02 09:13:08'' [[nbsp]] http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/antinews.htm It appears Robert Rudnick had more serious problems in Alabama before being arrested in Minnesota. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-02 09:31:13'' [[nbsp]] http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070228-113749-875/r.htm Do you remember Tim Bueler from previous posts? --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-02 09:41:40'' [[nbsp]] The Rudnick article is the eighth from the bottom of the previous posting. Robert made the same page as the murders of the gay couple from Red Bluff and the arsonists of the Jewish Temple in Sacramento. --["JerryRafter"] - ------
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- ------ - ''2007-03-02 10:27:59'' [[nbsp]] Nothing you don't already know about Davis and Woodland. Don't be too surprised if the cotd doesn't show up in town some day with 500 Russians and Ukraines as they did in Sacramento. That's a whole other story. --["JerryRafter"]	+ * ''2007-03-02 10:27:59'' [[nbsp]] Nothing you don't already know about Davis and Woodland. Don't be too surprised if the cotd doesn't show up in town some day with 500 Russians and Ukraines as they did in Sacramento. That's a whole other story. --["JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-03-03 12:11:23

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- The church and its associates have had more than a few run-ins with the law because of their activities. Members have been arrested for things like creating a public nuisance, assault and battery, and blocking traffic during their protests. [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] The church has also been known to associate with Cheryl Sullenger, who attempted to blow up a San Diego abortion clinic in 1987, [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]].	+ The church and its associates have had more than a few run-ins with the law because of their activities. Members have been arrested for things like creating a public nuisance, assault and battery, and blocking traffic during their protests. [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] The church has also been known to associate with Cheryl Sullenger, who attempted to blow up a San Diego abortion clinic in 1987. [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]]

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-03-03 12:10:42

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- The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely to be around ten members.	+ The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely around ten members.

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-03-03 12:10:19

Somewhat of a rewrite. Still needs WAY more work.

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- The '''Church of the Divide''' is an anti-gay church from outside ["Davis"] that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] due to Wal-Mart's donation of $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.	+ The '''Church of the Divide''' is a church in the original sense of the word: a gathering of likeminded Christians. They do not have a building and they meet in the homes of their members. In other words, they're a [wiki:wikipedia:House_church house church]. The closest thing they have to a pastor is Dick Otterstad. Their membership is small, likely to be around ten members.
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- It should be noted to passersby that these protesters are in no way affiliated with the First Baptist Church of Davis. It is First Baptist that is being picketed by the Church of the Divide.	+ They have gained notoriety in ["Davis"] for picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis because the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], the Yolo County recorder and member of FBC at the time, for issuing "Certificates of Inequality" to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses on ["Valentine's Day"] ["2007"]. What really peeved them was when Pastor Snyder said that Freddie would always be welcome at the church.
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- A couple people have noted that TCOTD looks and acts very similarly to the ["Preachers with signs"] however they are quite distinctly different in their methods and their focus.	+ Outside of Davis, the Church of the Divide has carried out many other protests. For example, they routinely protest outside ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts] because of Wal-Mart's donation of $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations. Their ministries include [http://www.gaymarriageno.org/ GaymarriageNo], [http://cftie.org/ Citizens for Truth in Education], and probably others. A couple people have noted that TCOTD looks and acts very similarly to the ["Preachers with signs"].
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	+ The church and its associates have had more than a few run-ins with the law because of their activities. Members have been arrested for things like creating a public nuisance, assault and battery, and blocking traffic during their protests. [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] The church has also been known to associate with Cheryl Sullenger, who attempted to blow up a San Diego abortion clinic in 1987, [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]].
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- ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=116C2FF20EFBAA71&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=1178EE2B49C57107&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-02 10:27:59

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 10:27:59'' [[nbsp]] Nothing you don't already know about Davis and Woodland. Don't be too surprised if the cotd doesn't show up in town some day with 500 Russians and Ukraines as they did in Sacramento. That's a whole other story. --["JerryRafter"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-03-02 09:59:32

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 09:59:32'' [[nbsp]] Jerry - thanks for all the background. Do you have anything more specific about their activities in Davis? --["JabberWokky"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-02 09:41:40

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 09:41:40'' [[nbsp]] The Rudnick article is the eighth from the bottom of the previous posting. Robert made the same page as the murders of the gay couple from Red Bluff and the arsonists of the Jewish Temple in Sacramento. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-02 09:31:13

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 09:31:13'' [[nbsp]] http://washingtontimes.com/national/20070228-113749-875/r.htm Do you remember Tim Bueler from previous posts? --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-02 09:13:08

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 09:13:08'' [[nbsp]] http://my.execpc.com/~awallace/antinews.htm It appears Robert Rudnick had more serious problems in Alabama before being arrested in Minnesota. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-02 09:03:18

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-02 09:03:18'' [[nbsp]] http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0512/opa050178-1227.htm This is a Minnesota Supreme Court case concerning Luke Otterstad and Robert Rudnick. The case has been presented and is waiting a ruling. I've often wondered how the Otterstads who have a brush clearing business in Albany, Ca (Oak Hills Brush Clearing @925 Adams St.-previously know as Otterstad's Brush Clearing of the same address) can afford to take seemingly minor cases all the way to the Supreme Court of Minnesota. Also take note that Luke's partner in this incident is Robert A. Rudnick. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 15:33:52

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 15:33:52'' [[nbsp]] http://gaymarriageno.org/truthtrucks.htm Should gaymarriageno, also known as cotd, be telling people not to vote for Democrats? --["JerryRafter"]

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KarlMogel — 2007-03-01 15:28:59

removing duplications, turning urls into links

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- ''2007-03-01 14:32:01'' [[nbsp]] www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-03-01 14:32:01'' [[nbsp]] [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs] --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"]
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- ''2007-03-01 14:48:22'' [[nbsp]] www.news10.net/display --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 14:52:23'' [[nbsp]] www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 14:53:38'' [[nbsp]] Sorry for the duplication, it was my fat finger. --["JerryRafter"] - ------ - ''2007-03-01 15:05:19'' [[nbsp]] www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664 This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-03-01 15:05:19'' [[nbsp]] [http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664] This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 15:27:24

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 15:27:24'' [[nbsp]] The news10 entry seems to be chopped off. James, did you get it ? If not, I'll redo. --["JerryRafter"]

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JamesHaile — 2007-03-01 15:12:01

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 15:12:01'' [[nbsp]] I'm still interested. You are posting excellent info and references. --["JamesHaile"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 15:06:37

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 15:06:37'' [[nbsp]] More later if anyone is still interested. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 15:05:19

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 15:05:19'' [[nbsp]] www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=12664 This ties Tim Bueler to the Otterstads. Tim is the past president of the High School Conservative Club of America. He has demonstrated along side the cotd many times. After high school Tim joined the "Minutemen" and became the press secretary for the group. Just recently Tim has been in a battle to keep control of the Minutemen away from it's board members. This is a developing story. The board members accuse Tim of the misuse of almost a million dollars in contributions. Tim says the board members have stolen his email list. Like I said, it is a developing story and should be interesting. . --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 14:53:38

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 14:53:38'' [[nbsp]] Sorry for the duplication, it was my fat finger. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 14:52:23

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 14:52:23'' [[nbsp]] www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 14:48:22

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 14:48:22'' [[nbsp]] www.news10.net/display --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 14:32:01

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 14:32:01'' [[nbsp]] www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/04/1062548963058.html?from=storyrhs --we now know that Ron Brock is a sometime member of tcod and he was among the demonstrators recently against Freddie Oakley. Read what he has to say about Paul Hill. --["JerryRafter"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-03-01 10:56:57

Bit of clarification.

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- * No, to discuss ''them'' is fine... support them if you'd like. To debate their message is what doesn't really have a place here. Tell us what they've done that's good, what they believe in. That's discussing ''them''. To put it another way, on an entry about the local high school football team, you could discuss their budget or their new uniforms. But discussing football in general (if grass or astroturf is better or talking about the Superbowl) is not related directly to the subject at hand... it isn't about the actual high school football team. I (and others) would love you to support CotD by telling us what they have done or provide more information about who they are. To put it another way, the CotD makes signs. But debating here about the best way to paint and construct signs would be off-topic. In the same way, debating the biblical support (for '''or''' against) their message is off-topic. That debate isn't about them, it's about you and the people you're debating with, and has nothing to do with the actual Church of the Divide. I hope you understand. --["JabberWokky" jw]	+ * No, to discuss ''them'' is fine... support them if you'd like. To debate their message is what doesn't really have a place here. Tell us what they've done that's good, what they believe in. That's discussing ''them''. To put it another way, on an entry about the local high school football team, you could discuss their budget or their new uniforms. When the discussion is over, the facts are picked out and incorporated into the entry and the discussion deleted. You could even state an opinion or review about the football team. But discussing football in general (if grass or astroturf is better or talking about the Superbowl) is not related directly to the subject at hand... it isn't about the actual high school football team. I (and others) would love you to support CotD by telling us what they have done or provide more information about who they are. To put it another way, the CotD makes signs. But debating here about the best way to paint and construct signs would be off-topic. In the same way, debating the biblical support (for '''or''' against) their message is off-topic. That debate isn't about them, it's about you and the people you're debating with, and has nothing to do with the actual Church of the Divide. I hope you understand. --["JabberWokky" jw]

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JabberWokky — 2007-03-01 10:54:26

Reply to Marie

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	+ * No, to discuss ''them'' is fine... support them if you'd like. To debate their message is what doesn't really have a place here. Tell us what they've done that's good, what they believe in. That's discussing ''them''. To put it another way, on an entry about the local high school football team, you could discuss their budget or their new uniforms. But discussing football in general (if grass or astroturf is better or talking about the Superbowl) is not related directly to the subject at hand... it isn't about the actual high school football team. I (and others) would love you to support CotD by telling us what they have done or provide more information about who they are. To put it another way, the CotD makes signs. But debating here about the best way to paint and construct signs would be off-topic. In the same way, debating the biblical support (for '''or''' against) their message is off-topic. That debate isn't about them, it's about you and the people you're debating with, and has nothing to do with the actual Church of the Divide. I hope you understand. --["JabberWokky" jw]

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MarieGruca — 2007-03-01 10:38:58

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 10:38:58'' [[nbsp]] So as long as I shred Luke Otterstad and COTD, I'm good, but to biblically address issues like them gets my comments canned? --["MarieGruca"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 10:20:02

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 10:20:02'' [[nbsp]] www.heartstrong.org/HeartStrong/PlacervillePhotos.html This website has pictures of Otterstads and the Brauns (Braun's minor children are present). Darling little children amongst such hate is very hard to understand. Pictured mostly on right hand side of page are Dick Otterstad(the devil made me do it), The elderly woman is Carolyn O'Connor, the family is Todd and Beth Braun and their three children. --["JerryRafter"]

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JerryRafter — 2007-03-01 10:13:28

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	+ ------ + ''2007-03-01 10:13:28'' [[nbsp]] www.villagelife.com/articles/2005/03/10/news/b0309_n1_gay.text this article shows Ron Brock as a cotd member --["JerryRafter"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-03-01 07:29:26

Info for Marie.

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	+ * Marie, your comments were not about the Church of the Divide. They were about generalities. This comment thread will also be pruned in the next few days, as ''it'' has nothing to do with the Church of the Divide (it's us talking about why your comments were removed). It would be wonderful if you could add information or perspective specifically related to the CotD, and I (and many others here) would make darn sure it wasn't deleted. It's like standing up in a city meeting about liquor licenses and talking about how to build a still. They might be related, but it's still off the topic at hand. There's no direct persecution of you, just simple housekeeping by removing the off topic commentary. --["JabberWokky" jw]

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StevenDaubert — 2007-02-28 23:35:32

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	+ * I was bored and googled the names. Look around at the sites. You can find pro sites and con sites on the same person. kinda sketch --["StevenDaubert"]

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SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-28 21:59:09

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- * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not	+ * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not necessarily a theological debate. As for the Truth only I know the Truth. --["SteveOstrowski"]

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SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-28 21:57:21

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- * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not necessarily a religious debate. As for Truth only I know the Truth. --["SteveOstrowski"]	+ * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not

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SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-28 21:55:25

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	+ * As the Minister of Supression of Information on the Davis Wiki I must say that however amusing this debate is, content and comments should relate to the subject at hand and not necessarily a religious debate. As for Truth only I know the Truth. --["SteveOstrowski"]

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MarieGruca — 2007-02-28 21:50:58

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-28 21:50:58'' [[nbsp]] Interesting how you've removed all my comments...what are you afraid of, besides the Truth? --["MarieGruca"]

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WilliamLewis — 2007-02-28 18:57:21

More info would be great!

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	+ * Anything else is useful. I'd like to flesh this entry out all that I can once I'm done with midterms on friday. --["WilliamLewis" wl]

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JerryRafter — 2007-02-28 16:24:56

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-28 16:24:56'' [[nbsp]] Does anyone else want further information aside from Luke Otterstad oops! I mean Dan Stanford? --["JerryRafter"]

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ArlenAbraham — 2007-02-28 12:21:03

+footnote on sullenger.

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- ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California[[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SDUB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=116C2FF20EFBAA71&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75. 2 in clinic bomb plot sentenced] (via Newsbank) San Diego Union Tribune 1988-5-6 "An East County couple, described in federal court as "good people who did a very bad thing," were sentenced yesterday to jail terms for their roles in a plot to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic last July. U.S. District Judge Earl B. Gilliam imposed the heaviest penalty, three years in custody, on Cheryl Sullenger, 32, who pleaded guilty in March to conspiracy to bomb the clinic.")]] So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2007-02-28 12:05:53

layout, +outside link, +captions, one wording change, Subject is desc (!Davis)

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- [[Image(TCOTDinDavis1.jpg, thumbnail, right)]][[Image(TCOTDinDavis2.jpg, thumbnail, right)]]	+ [[Image(TCOTDinDavis1.jpg, 300, thumbnail, right, "Picketing the Church")]] +
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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] due to Wal-Mart's donation of $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.	+ The '''Church of the Divide''' is an anti-gay church from outside ["Davis"] that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] due to Wal-Mart's donation of $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.
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- It should be noted to passersby that these protesters are in no way affiliated with the First Baptist Church of Davis. FBC is in fact picketed by this church.	+ It should be noted to passersby that these protesters are in no way affiliated with the First Baptist Church of Davis. It is First Baptist that is being picketed by the Church of the Divide.
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- == Media Coverage == - * [http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2007/02/15/news/319new0.txt A protest for fairness: Yolo County clerk takes a stand for gay marriage], ["Davis Enterprise"], 2007-2-15	+ + = Media and References = + + * [http://www.christiananime.net/showthread.php?threadid=40734 A long forum post from the perspective of a congregation member], Christian Anime Alliance, 2007-02-18 + * [http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2007/02/15/news/319new0.txt A protest for fairness: Yolo County clerk takes a stand for gay marriage], ["Davis Enterprise"], 2007-02-15 + + =Images= + + [[Image(TCOTDinDavis2.jpg, thumbnail, 250, "A bright yellow banner displays their views")]]

Church of the Divide

ArlenAbraham — 2007-02-28 12:05:42

giant footnote (starting to cite JerryRafter's sources)

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- ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]	+ ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery [[FootNote([http://docs.newsbank.com/openurl?ctx_ver=z39.88-2004&rft_id=info:sid/iw.newsbank.com:AWNB:SCBB&rft_val_format=info:ofi/fmt:kev:mtx:ctx&rft_dat=10840CF504A89558&svc_dat=InfoWeb:aggregated4&req_dat=0D0CB57AEDE52A75 Anti-gay message stirs ire in town, Placerville leaders have declared a hate-free zone in response to religious group's campaign.] (via Newsbank, must have ["campus"] ["IP addresses" IP], or a subscription) "Otterstad said a member of the church group was arrested on battery charges, which have been reduced to creating a public nuisance." Sacramento Bee 2005-2-13)]] to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

ArlenAbraham — 2007-02-28 11:44:51

added media section, threaded comment

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	+ + == Media Coverage == + * [http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2007/02/15/news/319new0.txt A protest for fairness: Yolo County clerk takes a stand for gay marriage], ["Davis Enterprise"], 2007-2-15 +
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- ------ - ''2007-02-28 10:41:15'' [[nbsp]] Jerry, can you post any sources that verify your information? --["DanStanford"]	+ ''2007-02-28 10:41:15'' [[nbsp]] Jerry, can you post any sources that verify your information? --["DanStanford"]

Church of the Divide

DanStanford — 2007-02-28 10:41:15

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-28 10:41:15'' [[nbsp]] Jerry, can you post any sources that verify your information? --["DanStanford"]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-28 09:56:56

corrected some bad englilish

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regularly protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] for donating $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] due to Wal-Mart's donation of $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-28 09:45:12

Added my name to my comment

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- * Wow. Thank you for the info. Very revealing.	+ * Wow. Thank you for the info. Very revealing. --["JamesHaile"]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-28 09:44:32

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	+ * Wow. Thank you for the info. Very revealing.

Church of the Divide

DavidPoole — 2007-02-27 19:06:20

Sorry, irrelevant comment, this is about the church, not religion in general.

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- ------
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- ------ - ''2007-02-27 16:37:27'' [[nbsp]] More evidence that religion is stupid. --["JeffSpeckles"]

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-02-27 16:50:36

Revert to version 56 (Relevant. If verified, we'll integrate, otherwise delete.).

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"] + ------

Church of the Divide

DanStanford — 2007-02-27 16:45:49

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- ------ - ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"] - ------

Church of the Divide

JeffSpeckles — 2007-02-27 16:37:27

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 16:37:27'' [[nbsp]] More evidence that religion is stupid. --["JeffSpeckles"]

Church of the Divide

JerryRafter — 2007-02-27 16:31:31

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 16:31:31'' [[nbsp]] The church of the divide is made up of five adults and three minor children. Dick and Luke Otterstad and Carolyn O'Connor are from Garden Valley. Todd and Beth Braun are from Auburn. The church of the divide is a umbrella for "save our slaves" "gaymarriageno" "citizens for truth in education" and a least one other that slips my mind right now. Church of the divide is not a church. It is only these handful of people and whomever they can recruit for their protests. Members of their group have been arrested for various things ranging from assault and battery to blocking traffic. They associate with people like Ron Brock and Cheryl Sullenger. Ron has been arrested for several violations and Cheryl has spent about 2 1/2 years in the federal pen for conspiring to blow up an abortion clinic in southern California. So as you can see these bible-toting idiots are not as playful as they may seem. --["JerryRafter"]

Church of the Divide

ArlenAbraham — 2007-02-27 16:15:14

removed comments not about Church of the Divide

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- - ------ - The problem is, they're right, if you believe the Bible is the Word of God. (Which I don't) The Old Testament advocates the killing of "sodomites" and others who don't conform to its teachings. --["TobinJones"] - * Not necessarily. The law in the Old Testament can be divided into three different types of law. There are the ceremonial laws, which include the dietary stuff and regulations considering ritual purity. The dietary laws are widely considered to be non-binding because of Acts 10:9-16. The ritual purity laws don't need to be followed because Christians do not perform temple worship, as they believe the blood sacrifice of Jesus abolished it. The next set of laws are the moral laws, which include not coveting, not committing adultery, not engaging in homosexual sex acts, etc. These are binding on all believers. The third set of laws in the Old Testament are the civil laws. People tend to forget that the laws in the Old Testament were once the laws of a nation, ancient Israel. These include things like stoning adulterers and putting people who have committed homosexual sex acts to death. We aren't living in ancient Israel, so they are non-binding on Christians. Christians are only obligated to observe the moral law in the Bible. In the case of Freddie Oakley, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to believe that the moral code in the Bible is for Christians to obey out of devotion to God and to be upset that the government is enforcing the moral code on those who have not taken it up willingly. There is a long Baptist tradition of supporting the freedom of religion and the right of the sinner to sin. What good is devotion to God if it is forced upon you? --["WilliamLewis"] - * you win William --["StevenDaubert"]
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- ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"] - * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"] - * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"]

Church of the Divide

JamesSchwab — 2007-02-27 16:01:23

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- ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 15:56:40

Revert to version 42 (Is not.).

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-02-27 15:51:44

Revert to version 49 (Irrelevant comments.).

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- ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 15:50:55

Revert to version 42 (Restoring comments).

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

WilliamLewis — 2007-02-27 15:27:34

Revert to version 47 (Let's kill this before it turns into another "Abortion/Debate").

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- ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 14:07:58

Revert to version 42 (Comments are comments, why remove them?).

Differences for Church of the Divide

Deletions are marked with - .	Additions are marked with +.
Line 45:	Line 45:
	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2007-02-27 14:06:02

Revert to version 41 (Reverting back to David's off-topic purge.).

Differences for Church of the Divide

Deletions are marked with - .	Additions are marked with +.
Line 45:	Line 45:
- ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 14:03:15

Revert to version 42 (Steve, I'm just repeating your revert, I totally agree with you!!!!).

Differences for Church of the Divide

Deletions are marked with - .	Additions are marked with +.
Line 17:	Line 17:
	+ + ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["CarlosOverstreet"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["KenjiYamada"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["StevenDaubert"] + * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["JamesHaile"] + ------ + ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["DanStanford"] + * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["WilliamLewis"] + * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["StevenDaubert"] + + ------ + The problem is, they're right, if you believe the Bible is the Word of God. (Which I don't) The Old Testament advocates the killing of "sodomites" and others who don't conform to its teachings. --["TobinJones"] + * Not necessarily. The law in the Old Testament can be divided into three different types of law. There are the ceremonial laws, which include the dietary stuff and regulations considering ritual purity. The dietary laws are widely considered to be non-binding because of Acts 10:9-16. The ritual purity laws don't need to be followed because Christians do not perform temple worship, as they believe the blood sacrifice of Jesus abolished it. The next set of laws are the moral laws, which include not coveting, not committing adultery, not engaging in homosexual sex acts, etc. These are binding on all believers. The third set of laws in the Old Testament are the civil laws. People tend to forget that the laws in the Old Testament were once the laws of a nation, ancient Israel. These include things like stoning adulterers and putting people who have committed homosexual sex acts to death. We aren't living in ancient Israel, so they are non-binding on Christians. Christians are only obligated to observe the moral law in the Bible. In the case of Freddie Oakley, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to believe that the moral code in the Bible is for Christians to obey out of devotion to God and to be upset that the government is enforcing the moral code on those who have not taken it up willingly. There is a long Baptist tradition of supporting the freedom of religion and the right of the sinner to sin. What good is devotion to God if it is forced upon you? --["WilliamLewis"] + * you win William --["StevenDaubert"] + ------ + ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"] + * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"] + * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-27 13:59:11

Revert to version 43 (Have fun on the talk page ).

Differences for Church of the Divide

Deletions are marked with - .	Additions are marked with +.
Line 17:	Line 17:
- - ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["CarlosOverstreet"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["KenjiYamada"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["StevenDaubert"] - * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["JamesHaile"] - ------ - ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["DanStanford"] - * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["WilliamLewis"] - * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["StevenDaubert"] - - ------ - The problem is, they're right, if you believe the Bible is the Word of God. (Which I don't) The Old Testament advocates the killing of "sodomites" and others who don't conform to its teachings. --["TobinJones"] - * Not necessarily. The law in the Old Testament can be divided into three different types of law. There are the ceremonial laws, which include the dietary stuff and regulations considering ritual purity. The dietary laws are widely considered to be non-binding because of Acts 10:9-16. The ritual purity laws don't need to be followed because Christians do not perform temple worship, as they believe the blood sacrifice of Jesus abolished it. The next set of laws are the moral laws, which include not coveting, not committing adultery, not engaging in homosexual sex acts, etc. These are binding on all believers. The third set of laws in the Old Testament are the civil laws. People tend to forget that the laws in the Old Testament were once the laws of a nation, ancient Israel. These include things like stoning adulterers and putting people who have committed homosexual sex acts to death. We aren't living in ancient Israel, so they are non-binding on Christians. Christians are only obligated to observe the moral law in the Bible. In the case of Freddie Oakley, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to believe that the moral code in the Bible is for Christians to obey out of devotion to God and to be upset that the government is enforcing the moral code on those who have not taken it up willingly. There is a long Baptist tradition of supporting the freedom of religion and the right of the sinner to sin. What good is devotion to God if it is forced upon you? --["WilliamLewis"] - * you win William --["StevenDaubert"] - ------ - ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"] - * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"] - * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 13:57:24

Revert to version 42 (Shitfight!!!!!!!!!! Get the popcorn!).

Differences for Church of the Divide

Deletions are marked with - .	Additions are marked with +.
Line 17:	Line 17:
	+ + ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["CarlosOverstreet"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["KenjiYamada"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["StevenDaubert"] + * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["JamesHaile"] + ------ + ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["DanStanford"] + * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["WilliamLewis"] + * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["StevenDaubert"] + + ------ + The problem is, they're right, if you believe the Bible is the Word of God. (Which I don't) The Old Testament advocates the killing of "sodomites" and others who don't conform to its teachings. --["TobinJones"] + * Not necessarily. The law in the Old Testament can be divided into three different types of law. There are the ceremonial laws, which include the dietary stuff and regulations considering ritual purity. The dietary laws are widely considered to be non-binding because of Acts 10:9-16. The ritual purity laws don't need to be followed because Christians do not perform temple worship, as they believe the blood sacrifice of Jesus abolished it. The next set of laws are the moral laws, which include not coveting, not committing adultery, not engaging in homosexual sex acts, etc. These are binding on all believers. The third set of laws in the Old Testament are the civil laws. People tend to forget that the laws in the Old Testament were once the laws of a nation, ancient Israel. These include things like stoning adulterers and putting people who have committed homosexual sex acts to death. We aren't living in ancient Israel, so they are non-binding on Christians. Christians are only obligated to observe the moral law in the Bible. In the case of Freddie Oakley, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to believe that the moral code in the Bible is for Christians to obey out of devotion to God and to be upset that the government is enforcing the moral code on those who have not taken it up willingly. There is a long Baptist tradition of supporting the freedom of religion and the right of the sinner to sin. What good is devotion to God if it is forced upon you? --["WilliamLewis"] + * you win William --["StevenDaubert"] + ------ + ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"] + ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"] + * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"] + * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-27 13:39:22

Differences for Church of the Divide

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- - ''2007-02-20 22:47:20'' [[nbsp]] I saw the video file posted. It's disgusting... these people have little respect for human dignity and remind me of the Westboro Baptist Church that picketed the Episcopal Convention in Minnesota calling other Christians hurtful derogatory remarks. --["CarlosOverstreet"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 00:35:02'' [[nbsp]] That sucks, but as long as it stays nonviolent and doesn't infringe on private property, that's free speech, right? --["KenjiYamada"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 18:51:24'' [[nbsp]] The video is poorly shot, these guys remind me of preachers with signs. The fact that they protest Wal-Mart also disappoints me. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-21 20:31:56'' [[nbsp]] video is poorly shot, editing is rather comical. Whole thing smacks of propaganda. --["StevenDaubert"] - * lol, that's because it IS propaganda. I think the best way I've ever described these guys is 'religious bullies,' they claim Christianity for the sole purpose of twisting it so they can lord over people and hurt others. Also, should this page get linked to preachers with signs? --["JamesHaile"] - ------ - ''2007-02-23 10:50:46'' [[nbsp]] Judging by that video on their site, First Baptist Church in Davis seems pretty hateful and intolerant of visitors coming in to worship. If they welcome Freddie Oakley, they should welcome these guys too - isn't that the loving thing to do? --["DanStanford"] - * FBC did nothing hateful or intolerant. Also, those "visitors" didn't come to worship; they came to protest. There is a big difference. If these people had come to worship, they would have been welcomed. --["WilliamLewis"] - * I would bet dollars to dimes that if TCOTD brought it's congregation to FBC without the signs, and without trying to force there message on others and just went in and enjoyed the service and worshipped FBC would have welcomed them like they welcome everyone. --["StevenDaubert"] - - ------ - The problem is, they're right, if you believe the Bible is the Word of God. (Which I don't) The Old Testament advocates the killing of "sodomites" and others who don't conform to its teachings. --["TobinJones"] - * Not necessarily. The law in the Old Testament can be divided into three different types of law. There are the ceremonial laws, which include the dietary stuff and regulations considering ritual purity. The dietary laws are widely considered to be non-binding because of Acts 10:9-16. The ritual purity laws don't need to be followed because Christians do not perform temple worship, as they believe the blood sacrifice of Jesus abolished it. The next set of laws are the moral laws, which include not coveting, not committing adultery, not engaging in homosexual sex acts, etc. These are binding on all believers. The third set of laws in the Old Testament are the civil laws. People tend to forget that the laws in the Old Testament were once the laws of a nation, ancient Israel. These include things like stoning adulterers and putting people who have committed homosexual sex acts to death. We aren't living in ancient Israel, so they are non-binding on Christians. Christians are only obligated to observe the moral law in the Bible. In the case of Freddie Oakley, it is perfectly reasonable for a Christian to believe that the moral code in the Bible is for Christians to obey out of devotion to God and to be upset that the government is enforcing the moral code on those who have not taken it up willingly. There is a long Baptist tradition of supporting the freedom of religion and the right of the sinner to sin. What good is devotion to God if it is forced upon you? --["WilliamLewis"] - * you win William --["StevenDaubert"] - ------ - ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"] - ------ - ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"] - * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"] - * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-27 13:35:10

Revert to version 40 (creating talk page ).

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] + * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] + ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] + ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] + ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

DavidPoole — 2007-02-27 13:06:38

I know nothing of the situation, just removing religious mojo.

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- ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"] - * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"] - ------ - ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"] - ------ - Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"] - ------ - ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

JabberWokky — 2007-02-27 13:04:22

Note about off-topic comments (for the new members appearing to post here).

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	+ + --> '''''Please try and focus comments on the Church of the Divide. General theological, free speech or gay rights arguments that do __not__ specifically have to do with the topic of this entry are, well, off-topic.''''' <--

Church of the Divide

ChebaccoThirty — 2007-02-27 12:39:12

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:39:12'' [[nbsp]] Absolutely amazing. Don't you "christians" realize that you are all going to hell? Just ask your nearest muslim. Of course, all you muslims are going to hell, also. Just ask your nearest fundamentalist christian. Assholes. --["ChebaccoThirty"]

Church of the Divide

MarieGruca — 2007-02-27 12:11:04

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 12:11:04'' [[nbsp]] Judgment begins with the house of God, which is grossly apostate and full of so-called Christians. Deal with the issues addressed by Church of the Divide, search the Scriptures as the Bereans did to see 'if these things are so'. That your 'kindly' pastor would welcome an open hypocrite with open arms into the household of God, but call out the sheriffs to bar other Christians like Luke Otterstad as evildoers...that says a lot about the man. Woe to shepherds that feed only themselves. My hope is that Freddie and Pastor Snyder would repent before God and stop misleading the flock! --["MarieGruca"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-27 09:38:08

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	+ ------ + Okay, I am going to go ahead and disagree with you not because I know or don't know the pastor but because when the Catholic Church and state were one: those were good times. --["SteveOstrowski"]

Church of the Divide

DanStanford — 2007-02-27 09:33:23

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-27 09:33:23'' [[nbsp]] How can you call Glen Snyder a "kindly" pastor. Watching that video just confirms in me that the churches are full of hypocrites. Having Sheriffs deputies escort people out of church?? I thought there was supposed to be a separation between the Church and the State. Then you got the pastor endorsing a candidate... reminds me of when the Catholic Church and the State were one... What is this country coming to. --["DanStanford"]

Church of the Divide

DavidPoole — 2007-02-26 15:39:58

note on this individual.

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	+ * Note, this author seems to live in Colorado, not Davis or San Jose, as such this may simply be a biased opinion, should it be removed because it is a bit offensive towards this kindly pastor. ~["DavePoole"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-26 15:02:45

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regularly protest at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] for donating $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regularly protesters at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] for donating $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.

Church of the Divide

DavidPoole — 2007-02-26 15:01:08

sounds a bit better.

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts] for donating $60,000 to pro-gay organizations.	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regularly protest at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Mart Department Stores] for donating $60,000 to pro-homosexual organizations.
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- A couple people have noted that TCOTD looks and acts very similarly to the ["Preachers with signs"]	+ A couple people have noted that TCOTD looks and acts very similarly to the ["Preachers with signs"] however they are quite distinctly different in their methods and their focus.

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-26 14:49:23

Question answered

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts].	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts] for donating $60,000 to pro-gay organizations.
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- ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Why Walmart, what is so wrong with those guys? Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"]	+ ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-26 14:45:39

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- ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Why Walmart, what is so wrong with those guys? --["SteveOstrowski"]	+ ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Why Walmart, what is so wrong with those guys? Yeah, and before you bring the 2 minutes of hate on me I just want to say that my edits are not an endorsment on this church. --["SteveOstrowski"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-26 14:43:33

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:43:33'' [[nbsp]] Why Walmart, what is so wrong with those guys? --["SteveOstrowski"]

Church of the Divide

SteveOstrowski — 2007-02-26 14:43:01

Little strong bias there

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take a very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stance on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts].	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take, what some believe to be, very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stances on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are seemingly ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts].
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- It should be noted to passersby that these protesters are in no way affiliated with the First Baptist Church of Davis. FBC is in fact under the attack of these extremists.	+ It should be noted to passersby that these protesters are in no way affiliated with the First Baptist Church of Davis. FBC is in fact picketed by this church.

Church of the Divide

MarieGruca — 2007-02-26 14:26:33

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-26 14:26:33'' [[nbsp]] Oh, yes, "deal" with Freddie privately, without making a scene (bad for business). Well, Freddie went public on TV with her hypocritical Christianity. She needed dealt with publicly, not privately, as she is publicly sinning. COTD is doing the job pastor Glen Snyder refuses to do. --["MarieGruca"]

Church of the Divide

PhilipNeustrom — 2007-02-24 19:39:06

linked valentine

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- This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this Valentine's Day handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take a very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stance on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts].	+ This is the anti-gay church that has been picketing in front of ["First Baptist Church" First Baptist Church] of Davis. They are doing this because ["FreddieOakley" Freddie Oakley], who this ["Valentine's Day"] handed out 'Certificates of Inequality' to homosexual couples trying to get marriage licenses, was a member there and the pastor, Glenn Snyder, refused to publicly rebuke her and actually said she was welcome in the church. They take a very hateful, unforgiving, and controversial stance on most topics (particularly ["Homosexuals" homosexuality]) and are ruthless in the execution of their protests. They are also regular picketers at ["Wal-Mart" Wal-Marts].

Church of the Divide

KenjiYamada — 2007-02-24 19:32:18

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	+ * This site (davis wiki) doesn't belong to FBC and most of the people who post here aren't associated with FBC in any way. --["KenjiYamada"]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-24 17:02:49

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	+ * You obviously know nothing of the situation. The pastor did talk to Freddie about it and was taking care of it privately without making a scene, then the COTD showed up. --["JamesHaile"]

Church of the Divide

MarieGruca — 2007-02-24 13:50:04

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:50:04'' [[nbsp]] Don't you folks read your Bible or stand for the Truth? You comments and arguments against Church of the Divide are secular, not Biblical. Aren't you concerned that the Name of Christ will be blasphemed because of the despicable actions of Freddie Oakley? Her 'Christianity' is suspect as she is double-minded: says 'homosexuality is sin', then openly and strongly supports gay marriage. so what if she resigned her 'church membership'. Your pastor was obviously not doing his job as shepherd, preferring a cordial fellowship with Freddie over the unpleasant task of standing for righteousness in her life--which is what a shepherd should do! Does this not embolden others to despise the Word of God for the sake of friendship with the world? --["MarieGruca"]

Church of the Divide

StevenDaubert — 2007-02-24 13:27:56

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:27:56'' [[nbsp]] They have a disclaimer that states anything sent to them becomes there property and they can post it on the site if they want to. --["StevenDaubert"]

Church of the Divide

DanStanford — 2007-02-24 13:24:17

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-24 13:24:17'' [[nbsp]] I'd imagine they get quite a lot of hatemail... I'm suprised they allow any comments at all. --["DanStanford"]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-24 01:22:09

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	+ [[Image(TCOTDinDavis1.jpg, thumbnail, right)]][[Image(TCOTDinDavis2.jpg, thumbnail, right)]]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-24 01:15:19

Upload of image TCOTDinDavis2.jpg.

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-24 01:15:01

Upload of image TCOTDinDavis1.jpg.

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-23 22:42:41

added a link to my comment

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- ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the YouTube page for the video. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"]	+ ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKZBTz2hs-I YouTube page for the video]. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"]

Church of the Divide

JamesHaile — 2007-02-23 22:40:10

Comment added.

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	+ ------ + ''2007-02-23 22:40:10'' [[nbsp]] There's a little comment battle going on in the YouTube page for the video. Unfortunately The COTD requires "approval" of all comments before they get posted. Very confident in their stance arn't they? --["JamesHaile"]