CitationNeeded/Talk

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2008-06-09 22:20:49   Does this differ greatly from [[Include(FactCheck)]]:

This statement is in need of Fact Checking Check the facts with an authoritative source, such as a Library, and remove this tag.

in any way? —JasonAller

2008-06-09 22:51:08   Hmm I have thoughts. As it seems to me, having a citation needed page implies a need of citation, e.g. some outside verifiable resource that confirms the fact, as found typically in a foot or end note on a boring encyclopedia entry. However, this is a community oriented site, and as such I am not sure we would ever have an authority that should be placed above community members unless a matter that is purely academic (e.g. something outside the community, something listed on wikipedia for instance).
As such, this leads to my first conclusion that this tag wouldn't be terribly useful for this particular site.
However, as far as differing from a 'fact checking' tag, they are very different I think, as a fact is merely confirmed by the community and such a tag only raises awareness that there is some question raised in a community of the truth status of some issue, as confirmed by the community. This tag would apply to a need of extra-communal confirmation of the truth status.
That leads to my second conclusion that these do have some significant difference.

I see no problem in having a 'citation needed' tag, as there are limited circumstances to which it applies, it is a case of fact checking with an additional requirement of some outside reference. So it would be good if we could have this tag, and encourage the use of the fact checking tag as it would be more often appropriate. —DavidPoole

2008-06-09 23:06:17   trust in a source depends on knowledge of the source... —IDoNotExist

If you trust the wiki, then you ought trust the community, why do you need more than that? ~DP

2008-06-10 01:18:50   Wikifacts may be wikifictional. —IDoNotExist

2008-06-10 01:21:43   I think you're missing the point. There's not enough Citation Needed, and certainly enough horse racing on this wiki. Let us honor the sport of kings! —BrentLaabs

2008-06-10 02:12:25   What do you guys mean by horse racing? —CurlyGirl26

2008-06-10 06:45:50   What timing! My newspaper company just had our June Board meeting yesterday, and I am currently holding the office of President through 2008 and the first half of 2009. Anybody who needs any "printed, thus real" citations made, I can invent them whole cloth! In all seriousness, when people start making stuff up, it has become obvious quite quickly: we are a small enough group to watch for the doofuses and call them out. The remainder are good faith mistakes which get corrected when somebody doesn't think they jibe with reality or the original editor is unsure that they have the correct facts themselves (thus the above "Fact Checking") notice. In the end, the wiki is as accurate as a group of people make it.

The one action that seems to be helped by a tag/list is the off-wiki activity of taking photos. If you think something needs a citation don't "tag it", unless you are paying bounties... and they better be damn good ones, at least enough to fill up a tank of gas or buy a used bike. Otherwise you are saying "I want something fixed, but I don't want to do it, so one of my neighbors should have to do it because I've told them to". Well, that just isn't cool, kosher, nice, polite or neighborly. If you want a citation, add it. If somebody else wants one, they will add it regardless of your tag sitting there. If what you're really doing is questioning the facts related by a fellow editor, hike up your metaphorical pants and durn well question them directly (or the community on the talk page). In pretty much all cases it'll be a quick and easy exchange and the entry will be closer to the facts than when you started, and in those cases where it isn't quick or easy, maybe the truth isn't that clear either. "Tagging" allows non-communicative non-action that makes the person putting the tag up feel like they have accomplished something without actually making the entry any more useful to the community of Davis. —JabberWokky