Recent Changes for "Front Page/Talk" - Davis Wiki

Front Page/Talk

CovertProfessor — 2009-11-20 08:35:08

Breaking News

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	+ * There is this page: ["Breaking News"].

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WesHardaker — 2009-11-20 06:54:01

real time response

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	+ * And even better, if added, it should have a auto-time-out option where stuff is deleted after 4 hours of inactivity on a given topic :-) --["Users/WesHardaker"]

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JessicaRockwell — 2009-11-20 06:39:55

agree with dwlotter's proposal for a front page "developing events" section

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	+ * I think this is a good idea. A side question: I noticed Amy Goodman is having an event today in Davis. Is anyone trying to get Amy Goodman to talk about the demonstrations and fee hikes?

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dwlotter — 2009-11-20 03:18:57

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	+ =Proposal: A Realtime "Developing Events" Discussion Area= + + We need an area to go to when there are unfolding events. Last night there was a helicopter hovering over campus for an hour. I would like to have had a forum to go to where someone posts what is going on (it was the arrests of protesters of fee increases). This discussion area would be for current "developing events" only. Any realtime (currently happening) event could be posted, i.e. concerts, police activity, etc. + + ------

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PhilipNeustrom — 2009-11-08 14:01:13

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	+ + * I like it. --["Users/PhilipNeustrom"]

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CovertProfessor — 2009-11-08 13:45:22

good edits, imo

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	+ * I think the link to Welcome to the Wiki is a good idea. So often that link is provided after someone has behaved less than desirably. Maybe some will read it upfront and avoid problems down the line. (wishful thinking?) I also like the note about the wiki having been part of the community for five years. --["Users/CovertProfessor"]

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JabberWokky — 2009-11-08 11:33:19

Rationale for second edit.

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- =Minor rewrite of top "About Davis Wiki and Wiki Spot" paragraph= - [http://daviswiki.org/Front_Page?action=diff&version2=415&version1=414 Here is the change]. Basically to note the passing of the five years public mark (which occurred about three months ago, I think), plus to clarify the relationship to Wiki Spot. The latter point could probably use some more subtle work, so long as it stays short. -jw	+ =Two minor rewrites of top "About Davis Wiki and Wiki Spot" paragraph= + [http://daviswiki.org/Front_Page?action=diff&version2=415&version1=414 Here is the first change]. Basically to note the passing of the five years public mark (which occurred about three months ago, I think), plus to clarify the relationship to Wiki Spot. -jw + + [http://daviswiki.org/Front_Page?action=diff&version2=414&version1=415 Here is the second change]. Pulls the link for two year old update into the text itself, and adds a link to ["Welcome to the wiki"], which is a reasonable help entry. This is likely a bit more questionable than the above (at least in my mind), as we now have a link to the Introduction and to a self described primer. Of course, having both an introduction '''about''' what the wiki is, and also a primer explaining '''how''' to get involved makes sense enough to me to include both. It would probably be a good idea to take a look again at those two entries with an eye toward being clear and simple with links to more help or information (as I type this, I don't think they even cross link). -jw

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JabberWokky — 2009-11-08 11:23:22

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	+ + =Minor rewrite of top "About Davis Wiki and Wiki Spot" paragraph= + [http://daviswiki.org/Front_Page?action=diff&version2=415&version1=414 Here is the change]. Basically to note the passing of the five years public mark (which occurred about three months ago, I think), plus to clarify the relationship to Wiki Spot. The latter point could probably use some more subtle work, so long as it stays short. -jw

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hankim — 2009-10-01 10:26:39

(quick edit)

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	+ * Thanks.

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JabberWokky — 2009-10-01 10:25:28

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	+ * And I tagged the three valid links so you can see what to add.

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hankim — 2009-10-01 09:50:58

(quick edit)

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	+ * I started a page called ["ASUCD Subsidies"].

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JabberWokky — 2009-10-01 09:37:44

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	+ * It's not really formal... you can call it the "JabberWokky invented a tagging system for a few entries as he helped in the effort to write the Davis Wiki, and it works well in some cases" system. It's a method of using links and macros to link back and create a list that automatically updates. It sounds perfect for what you're looking to do, so I suggested it. If you create an base entry with an intro (something like "Various programs are funded in part or whole by ASUCD funds which are..."), and give me an example program or two, I'll set up the initial format, link the example ones and you can see how it works. --[wiki:gnome:]["Users/JabberWokky" Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards]

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hankim — 2009-10-01 08:34:31

(quick edit)

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	+ * What exactly is this tagging system called so that I can look up how to do it?

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JabberWokky — 2009-10-01 07:58:51

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	+ * There's a system used on a few entries (like ["AAA"]) so that the tag autocreates a list of all entries marked as being a member (or, in your case, subsidized). If you need help, just ask. Once you see an example or two, it's pretty easy... the hard part is going to all the entries and marking them and then doing the updates next semester or next year. As it is basically informative (regardless of how you stand on that particular program or the usage of student fees in general), it's not likely to be taken poorly. --[wiki:gnome:]["Users/JabberWokky" Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards]

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hankim — 2009-09-30 16:57:05

New proposal of labeling programs subsidized by ASUCD.

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	+ + = Proposal: Label programs subsidized by ASUCD = + + * I was just curious if anyone would mind if I went around putting in a Subsidy section on the pages of programs that the ASUCD subsidizes? I got this idea from a CATO article a while back that supported a government regulation that would require subsidized produce to be labeled as so. --["Users/hankim"]

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robinlaughlin — 2009-09-28 23:05:50

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	+ * I just saw this page after I changed back Bryan's newest revert. My two cents: I personally used and enjoyed the random pages entry when I was new to the Wiki; I spent about 30 minutes rotating through the random pages one evening. It was fun, entertaining, and informative. I like JW's analogy about flipping through a magazine. I hope that feature remains to greet new Wiki-ites. --["Users/robinlaughlin"]

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KevinChin — 2009-09-24 08:01:26

keeper

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	+ * I appreciate the Random entry since it often highlights some obscure aspect of the wiki or of Davis in general that one might not have otherwise thought of. I'm sure that many users visit the site looking for specific info, but the random page encourages a little bit of browsing. Besides, I've found that gnoming a random page now and then helps keep the wiki neat and tidy overall. --["Users/KevinChin"]

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IDoNotExist — 2009-09-23 21:58:11

(quick edit)

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	+ * Randomness is predictably nice. I vote to keep it. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]

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DougWalter — 2009-09-23 10:22:04

Keep it

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	+ * Brian is an editor with strong opinions. [http://daviswiki.org/Yolo_County_Library_-_Mary_L._Stephens_Branch?action=diff&version2=115&version1=114 Once again], they seem to not fit in with those of other editors. I say we thank him for being active and increasing our diversity, and suggest he find a different editorial cause. --["Users/DougWalter"]

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CovertProfessor — 2009-09-23 07:54:23

keep it.

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	+ * I like it too -- it fits with the wiki's quirkiness. I can't possibly see how it could be condescending. --["Users/CovertProfessor"]

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StaceyEllis — 2009-09-23 07:47:54

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	+ * I've never considered it condescending, and have actually discovered many interesting pages by its suggestion. There are so many strange and interesting facts about Davis, and there's no way I could ever actually get through the 14,000+ Davis Wiki pages (a lack of time, not a lack of wanting to!), but getting a random suggestion of something that I've never heard of is sort of fun. I'd like to see it back. --["Users/StaceyEllis"]

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RyanMikulovsky — 2009-09-23 07:35:06

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	+ * It was the only dynamic element of the page -- one that changes all the time -- rather than daily or monthly. And I have on more than one occasion used it. I don't understand why it would offend readers unless it brought up some crazy esoteric aspect of Davis or maybe some user doesn't want his page to randomly show up? Beats me. I'd love for it to return. --["Users/RyanMikulovsky"]

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WesHardaker — 2009-09-23 07:16:52

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	+ + * FWIW, I agree that it's nice. Not because it's helpful, but because it adds a "friendly" appearance to the page. If I wanted a boring, unfriendly, business like page to go look for information, I'd probably use yahoo's yellow page service or something. --["Users/WesHardaker" Wes "no nickname" Hardaker]

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JabberWokky — 2009-09-23 06:33:58

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	+ + =Random Entry= + + ["Users/BrianJKenyon"] has removed the random entry link a couple times. I'm hesitant to readd it again just because it violates my rule of thumb regarding back and forth editing. What do others think? Should it stay or should it go? Brian's had some pretty strong words about it in the changelog: "Random entries serve no purpose and are condescending to readers". Personally I feel it's a nice way to jump into the wiki at a point that you might not have intentionally gone to and discover a new aspect of Davis. Kind of like flipping through a magazine randomly for an article. It's a fairly natural way to read something like a Fodors or a Reader's Digest. If only the wiki were installed in public restrooms around Davis... --["Users/JabberWokky" Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards]

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JamesWaterhouse — 2009-05-20 17:49:57

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	+ *Agreed. For instance, I was surprised there was nothing about the May 19 special election on the front page yesterday. I wanted to add something but did not know how to go about doing so.

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WilliamLewis — 2009-02-12 18:34:57

Revert to version 130 (I think aban has earned a ban for spamming.).

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- - ---- - =Proposed: Featured Article - Classifier= - - I think we should promote Classifier: www.campusdestinations.com/ucdavis/classifier Thoughts?

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ABan — 2009-02-12 14:58:16

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	+ + ---- + =Proposed: Featured Article - Classifier= + + I think we should promote Classifier: www.campusdestinations.com/ucdavis/classifier Thoughts?

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EdWins — 2009-01-22 11:41:09

(quick edit)

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- ee are not, and -["Users/Edwins" ES]	+

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EdWins — 2009-01-22 11:39:30

so who gets to define what a bad drug is?

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	+ * Bah. ''A drug, broadly speaking, is any chemical substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function.'' You meant to say that you don't see the usefulness in talking about legal drugs you personally disapprove off: Alcohol, coffee (caffeine). Do you mind tea? I like mine very strong. Or sodas, extremely high in sugar with caffeine too. "Normal" cold and flu medicines, some of which certainly affect your function? Who gets to define what's a bad drug? Typically, society, and it seems pretty ok with alcohol and caffeine. -["Users/Edwins" ES] + + ee are not, and -["Users/Edwins" ES]

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JabberWokky — 2009-01-21 23:58:38

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- I do not see any usefulness in helping people get drugs.	+ * I do not see any usefulness in helping people get drugs. + * True, you don't. On the other side, I have no problem with listing where to get heroin and meth (and I don't do either, nor do I often drink alcohol). But neither of us is reflective of the community as a whole, and more importantly, this is a classification and filing question, having nothing to do with what either of us think of the content. As a reflection of how the actual community of Davis thinks, alcohol is the "Drink" in Food and Drink. If you wish to change that, feel free -- in the real world community of Davis, not on the wiki. If you ''do'' change the public view of what alcoholic beverages are called in the community of Davis, it should certainly be relabeled on the Front Page. Until then, it should be where people expect it to be when they are looking for it. --["Users/JabberWokky" Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards] +

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 19:46:36

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- Alcohol should NOT be in the Food And Drink section, but in a Poisons or Drugs section or both. And please do not mention the so-called "French Paradox". I am French and I can tell you this is just a lie of the alcohol industry:	+ *Alcohol should NOT be in the Food And Drink section, but in a Poisons or Drugs section or both. And please do not mention the so-called "French Paradox". I am French and I can tell you this is just a lie of the alcohol industry:
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-	+ I do not see any usefulness in helping people get drugs.

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JoePomidor — 2009-01-21 17:06:30

(quick edit)

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	+ * Whoah, dude, alcohol is not an evil item. If used in moderation it is a nice additive to any life. Any problem arising from it is through misuse, which can happen for almost anything. Ex: Food, drinks, cars, sleep. Just because you feel strongly about it doesn't make it true. Also, I will thank you not to delete my comments. --["Users/JoePomidor"]

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PhilipNeustrom — 2009-01-21 16:39:45

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	+ + In the real world people drink alcohol, many enjoy it and most consume it safely and responsibly. It's the "drink" (or implied aspect) in "Food / Drink." The wiki's supposed to be useful, at least in some sense.

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 16:36:26

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- ----- /!\ Edit conflict! Your version: -----	+ ----

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 16:34:19

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 16:33:38

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 16:32:36

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- Alcohol should NOT be in the Food And Drink section, but in a Poisons or Drugs section or both. Thanks -- ["Users/Michael777"] - * Whoah, dude, alcohol is not an evil item. If used in moderation it is a nice additive to any life. Any problem arising from it is through misuse, which can happen for almost anything. Ex: Food, drinks, cars, sleep. Just because you feel strongly about it doesn't make it true. --["Users/JoePomidor"]	+ ----- /!\ Edit conflict! Your version: ----- + Alcohol should NOT be in the Food And Drink section, but in a Poisons or Drugs section or both. And please do not mention the so-called "French Paradox". I am French and I can tell you this is just a lie of the alcohol industry: + It's like saying "Black top is good for your health because it contains amino acids". It's not because some thing contains some good nutrients that it is good. It can have negative effects on your health because of other elements as it is the case for alcohol. The bad effect far outweigh any "good" effect of alcohol. -- ["Users/Michael777"]

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JoePomidor — 2009-01-21 16:25:57

(quick edit)

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	+ * Whoah, dude, alcohol is not an evil item. If used in moderation it is a nice additive to any life. Any problem arising from it is through misuse, which can happen for almost anything. Ex: Food, drinks, cars, sleep. Just because you feel strongly about it doesn't make it true. --["Users/JoePomidor"]

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Michael777 — 2009-01-21 16:18:04

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	+ Alcohol should NOT be in the Food And Drink section, but in a Poisons or Drugs section or both. Thanks -- ["Users/Michael777"] + + ----

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mperkel — 2009-01-02 02:40:29

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	+ * How about a front page were you can collapse categories and it saves it using cookies/your account. That way, for those who know their way around can customize things a little more. --["Users/mperkel"]

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JabberWokky — 2008-10-01 19:50:46

rm done.

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- ------ - BTW, I am seeing the need to separate the Natural Food Works and the Farmer's Kitchen Cafe into two separate pages. I don't think I will have any problem doing this but I would also like to add a new category under "Food and Drink" labeled "Health Food / Supplements". Why? Simply because the Natural food Works does not "fit" any of the existing categories! Anyway, I know this is something of a "free for all" but I still thought I should bounce this off someone before proceeding. Does anyone see any problems with this? Thanx (PS This can be continued on the Natural Food Works Talk Page if this is not the right place to discuss.) --["David Decristoforo"] - * I think the front page is a mess and adding more categories is a bad idea. We don't need a category for every single business in Davis, this isn't the yellow pages. Speaking of messes, this talk page is a mess. Steve, are you done with your realignment? Can we delete the globe discussion? -- ["Users/ArlenAbraham"]
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- * "We don't need a category for every single business in Davis, this isn't the yellow pages." Well that was not really the idea....nevertheless, I'll take that as a "no" vote.... --["David Decristoforo"] - * It's a frustrating thing, as there should be just enough "top level" categories to assist people in finding things, but no more... i.e., as small as possible to still be useful. I'd personally say that it's not terribly bad, but the fact that it lines up about as big as the paired information to the right indicates it should not get any bigger; if something is added, it should probably replace something else. -- ["Users/JabberWokky" jw] - - - OK, that's two "no" votes". No "yes" votes (not a huge "turnout"). Democracy can be such a PITA! Maybe I will just move the NFW link so that it is under "Local Markets" and replace the NFW link under "Resturaunts" with the FKC. Anyone have a problem with ''that''? I'm asking because I don't want to go to all the trouble if someone's just going to undo it all the next day! --["David Decristoforo"] - ------

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JabberWokky — 2008-10-01 19:47:54

deleting (talk page for Muncipal... which I will create and delete).

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- - =Proposal: DavisNeededImprovements= - I've started a page ["DavisNeededImprovements"] of improvements that need to be made within the city of Davis itself. These are primarily infrastructure improvements - things that a governing body such as the Davis City Council needs to address, but may not be aware of. The idea is to make these issues easy for the Davis City Council to monitor and respond to, and to make it easy for residents of Davis to post new issues. Issue visibility will also help in ensuring that issues get addressed quickly. This seems like something that would be good to have a link to off of the front page. - - The wishlist is already linked. See ["DavisNeededImprovements/Talk"] --["Users/ArlenAbraham"] - - The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed. --["Users/IDoNotExist"] - - It seems like you're arguing just because you want your own page - there are many suggestions on the ["Davis Wish List"] page that look quite similiar to what you've posted on the ["DavisNeededImprovements"] page. How is a suggestion in the Bike section of the ["Davis Wish List"] to widen the sidewalk between Segundo and the ARC "unrealistic" ... while your suggestion to add a bike path between Lake and Anderson is something that can be addressed now? It's a noble gesture to say that the Davis City Council would use a Daviswiki page as a road map for Davis improvements, but I don't think that's very realistic. --["Users/VladLoscutoff"] - - - * I'll see your "unrealistic" (a point which I agree with) and raise you an "it can't hurt to try". I'll also up the ante by tossing in the point that the wiki is a resource for the community, and this is a novel use that, while likely to fail, is also something that somebody ''could'' (if they really made a real world, non-wiki-only effort) make work. As for a link on the front page, the general rule of thumb has been to link only near complete or at least very fleshed out entries, which would not apply here. I think somebody will trip across this little thread in a year or so, notice that the Needed Improvements project has been dead for a year, merge it into the Wish List and delete this thread. But then, something like that fate hung over the head of many other entries that have wound up flourishing. --jw - - * I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and arlington - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"] - - * But what stops Davis Needed Improvements from turning into the Wish List (and vice-versa)? Who decides whether an item belongs on the Improvement page or the Wish List? I do like the heart of the idea (highlight the best suggestions), but perhaps a section could just be added to the top of the Wish List that highlights the (top 5? top 10?) most realistic and needed suggestions. I just don't see what makes a suggestion Needed Improvements worthy vs. Wish List worthy ... and if a suggestion should be on both pages (which appears to be the case atm), why not consolidate down to a single wiki page? --["Users/VladLoscutoff"] - - * It's about presentation to people who can do something about it. By placing something in Davis Needed Improvements, you are trying to make a case to the city council (or to whoever has some power over the item) that this is something important that needs to be fixed. If you mix this in with the wish list, someone will look at it and say "They want something that is going to take lots of time and money. I'm going to ignore this." It's easier to get buy-in on something if you keep your request focused and realistic. A lot of the items on the wish list are things that would be really great to have, but if you say "Please fix this bike path. It's dangerous to ride on at night. Oh, and by the way, can we have a new Best Buy while we're at it?", you aren't going to be taken very seriously. If you go to your apartment manager and say "My faucet leaks. Please fix it.", they will probably fix it. If you say "My faucet leaks. Please fix it and I wish that my apartment had plush carpeting, larger windows, and marble counters", will you get anywhere? Probably not. A "best suggestions" list on the wish list is a great idea. But keeping the lists separate provides a good way to provide feedback and requests to the Council for things that they can reasonably accomplish in a short time, and within their power and budget. That's a criteria that very few items on the wish list meet. - - In general, it might be useful to establish criteria lists or suggested improvements for businesses in Davis in general. This would be different from the comments on wiki pages that say "This restaurant had terrible service!" The idea is that there is feedback that might apply to most or all businesses (some random examples: Please allow us to place orders online. Or, please offer WiFi. Or whatever.) This would provide faster feedback than waiting for lots of businesses to make the same mistakes.

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JabberWokky — 2008-10-01 19:46:37

rm done (commented out now, but there)

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- - =Proposal: Davis Social Meeting= - - Uh, I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I was wondering if it would be possible to get the BBQ in a more front page location on a semi-permanent basis. I really would like more people to know about it so I'm not alone bbqing there.... - - ''For a specific wiki bbq, adding to the front page is probably fine. I think we'll have more luck if instead of things linking to a semi-nebulous "Davis Social Meeting" (which sounds like a ["Davis Friends Meeting" quaker group to me]), you make a page for the Wiki BBQ along the lines of the other BBQ pages in the past?'' - - * Too true...wanna help me with it? - SB

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JabberWokky — 2008-10-01 19:45:10

rm done.

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- - = Proposal: Scrub Chamonix Comments = - The Comments section of the [["Chamonix Coffee"]] page is mainly a lengthy discussion about the evils of the past owners; the new owners are mentioned in the last comment, but the whole discussion just seems irrelevant, and perhaps harmful to a business that is now being run by reportedly very sweet people. --["Users/TomDenton"]

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JasonAller — 2008-10-01 19:29:36

gnoming

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- The Comments section of the [["Chamonix_Coffee"]] page is mainly a lengthy discussion about the evils of the past owners; the new owners are mentioned in the last comment, but the whole discussion just seems irrelevant, and perhaps harmful to a business that is now being run by reportedly very sweet people. --["Users/TomDenton"]	+ The Comments section of the [["Chamonix Coffee"]] page is mainly a lengthy discussion about the evils of the past owners; the new owners are mentioned in the last comment, but the whole discussion just seems irrelevant, and perhaps harmful to a business that is now being run by reportedly very sweet people. --["Users/TomDenton"]

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WilliamLewis — 2008-09-11 00:51:49

Revert to version 109 (rm ot discussion).

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- - =Discussion on Proposition 8= - In this note I hope to explain to my friends form varied backgrounds with different opinions why I support a constitutional amendment to the California State Constitution that would specify that this state only recognizes marriage as being between a man and a woman. This initiative is similar to one that was voted for by the majority of California Voters (I was not one at the time) in 2000 but was recently undone by the California Supreme Court in an action that I feel violated the will of the people and made me feel as if our leaders in the Supreme Court of California feel they are above democracy. I do not mean this note to offend or attack anyone. I do not even care if I change a single vote among my friends. Instead, I hope to help people understand why I feel the way I do and hopefully respect it. I am currently living in the college town of Davis and I am actually very afraid of retaliation for my personal and religious views. My husband and I decided not to post a sign showing our support of this proposition because we were afraid of physical harm to our apartment. While working as an RA for UC Davis I felt like I would be reprimanded by my superiors if I EVER shared views contrary to those of the very liberal UC Davis to coworkers, or residents. I would like you as readers to understand that I already have experienced religious intolerance not only by peers but by superiors while on campus in UC Davis and I ask you to please not comment on this note in a way that is a personal attack or hateful of those of us that truely believe in a God. - - To understand my posistion you first need to understand two things: - #1 I completely lack the ability to factor God out of any situation. I do not desire this ability. I know many that think that religion should be completely excluded from public affairs of all kind but I believe in a power higher than our government. - #2 I view this issue (and a few others too) in a very different way than most of my peers here at UC Davis. I know many of you (my friends) are in a stage in life where it is easy to feel that your actions do not affect others, or that others affect you. Many of you only have yourself to look out for. As for me, I am married and plan to have children within the next few years. I look at this issue and ask myself, how will this affect my family. I worry a lot about the impact on the school systems because I know my parents were upset with a few of the things my teachers taught me at school (namely a teacher or two who very much support welfare... not that this is right or wrong but I have Republican parents). - - My position: - #1 No action we ever do, no matter how secret or private is an isolated event. For example, what a parent does at home affects their kids who in turn share things with their classmates who then pass it on to their siblings. If one parent tells a child that smoking isn't really as bad for you as the schools say it is, easily twenty children might get this view. - #2 The laws of this state affect what is taught in schools. I believe that this is rightfully done so that the views of individual teachers don't affect the morals taught in each grade level. I do worry however that if the current Gay movement spreads to schools (which I see fully happening if proposition 8 isn't passed showing to the government that voters feel this way) that kids will be taught they need to not only discover who they like but what gender orientation they are. Life was confusing enough for me as a 12 year-old not to have to question if my "proper gender" was male because I got along with boys better and like most things associated with that gender role. I wouldn't want a late bloomer child who might not like girls or boys yet to have that question on their mind. - I also fear that my children will be taught that it is ok to marry (or simply just have sex with) anyone whom you love and loves you. Many women love abusive husbands and boyfriends. Some boys fall for girls significantly younger and viceversa. Some people may be completely incompatible. I want my children to consider who they marry for more than just love, and I want them to value my opinion. - #3 I believe a child has a right wherever possible to be raised by a mother and father. It seems to me that God, and nature (which ever you believe in), dictates this. Now I know that this is not often happening and it saddens me. I actually believe it is selfish when parents decide to split-up because they "just don't love each other anymore". There are times when divorce is necessary but I think too many parents give up on their marriage prematurely. My Dad comes form a large family, which has allowed me to see not only my parents struggle in marriage but aunts and uncles, but they live with it until they can work through it for their kids and they end up having many happy loving times. - I hear many argue that having gay parents is better than having no parents or abusive parents. I agree. However, I think the role of adoption agencies is to find the best possible home for each child, and in my mind that involves a father and a mother. If gay marriage is allowed gay adoptions will not only be allowed, but they may be forced as in Massachusetts. In that state gay marriage is already allowed and the courts have declared that adoption must be equal opportunity; already one of the largest adoption agencies, a Catholic agency, has closed its doors in that state because they are no longer to act within their religious beliefs. I fear the same will happen here in California. When i read the statement from the California Supreme Court allowing gay marriage it stood out to me that they said that gays have a "right to raise children". I believe a child has a right to be raised, no parent ever has a right above that of a child, that is why we have CPS. - We are not flooded with healthy children to adopt, I know people that haven't been able to afford to or have been neglected the opportunity because they were a little too old. Most of the children in our foster care system have been taken from negligent parents (and there is a period of time the parents have to earn them back) or have disabilities (and sadly most parents don't feel they can make that commitment). We have a shortage of healthy cute infants for people to adopt... they should be put in the best homes for them, not what might be "fair" or "equal" for those attempting to adopt them. - #4 I fear that equality in marriage for Gays will be mandated and forced into religion and other aspects of life. In Canada pastors were sued for preaching against homosexuality. Here in California two Christian doctors were successfully sued for not helping a lesbian woman have children (in-vitro planting of embryos, not delivery) even though they referred her to a doctor without religious beliefs that dictated against doing such. The case has gone to appeals of course, but it amazes me that a doctor (or anyone else) can be sued for acting in accordance with reasonable religious belief. I am a member of the LDS church and fear that individuals may sue for a right to be married in a Mormon temple; this is not even a right for members of our faith, it is a blessing and covenant only allowed to members deemed morally worthy who have a firm belief in the power of God and the temple. I fear that like in Canada we will be unable to express religious belief that may offend gays, and that we will be unable to teach against gay marriage. - - I think my views are reasonable and valid. I understand that many others might not view these consequences as bad. If you have taken the time to read this, thank you. This has been working in my mind for some time. I do not want others to hate me because they misunderstand my views, and that is why I wrote this note. I am open for conversation with anyone, just remember I really don't know how to view this without God in the picture. - - --Emily Brown ( edbrown@ucdavis.edu ), Student

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ebrown — 2008-09-10 23:53:35

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- --Emily Brown, Student	+ --Emily Brown ( edbrown@ucdavis.edu ), Student

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ebrown — 2008-09-10 23:52:04

added prop 8 discussion

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	+ + =Discussion on Proposition 8= + In this note I hope to explain to my friends form varied backgrounds with different opinions why I support a constitutional amendment to the California State Constitution that would specify that this state only recognizes marriage as being between a man and a woman. This initiative is similar to one that was voted for by the majority of California Voters (I was not one at the time) in 2000 but was recently undone by the California Supreme Court in an action that I feel violated the will of the people and made me feel as if our leaders in the Supreme Court of California feel they are above democracy. I do not mean this note to offend or attack anyone. I do not even care if I change a single vote among my friends. Instead, I hope to help people understand why I feel the way I do and hopefully respect it. I am currently living in the college town of Davis and I am actually very afraid of retaliation for my personal and religious views. My husband and I decided not to post a sign showing our support of this proposition because we were afraid of physical harm to our apartment. While working as an RA for UC Davis I felt like I would be reprimanded by my superiors if I EVER shared views contrary to those of the very liberal UC Davis to coworkers, or residents. I would like you as readers to understand that I already have experienced religious intolerance not only by peers but by superiors while on campus in UC Davis and I ask you to please not comment on this note in a way that is a personal attack or hateful of those of us that truely believe in a God. + + To understand my posistion you first need to understand two things: + #1 I completely lack the ability to factor God out of any situation. I do not desire this ability. I know many that think that religion should be completely excluded from public affairs of all kind but I believe in a power higher than our government. + #2 I view this issue (and a few others too) in a very different way than most of my peers here at UC Davis. I know many of you (my friends) are in a stage in life where it is easy to feel that your actions do not affect others, or that others affect you. Many of you only have yourself to look out for. As for me, I am married and plan to have children within the next few years. I look at this issue and ask myself, how will this affect my family. I worry a lot about the impact on the school systems because I know my parents were upset with a few of the things my teachers taught me at school (namely a teacher or two who very much support welfare... not that this is right or wrong but I have Republican parents). + + My position: + #1 No action we ever do, no matter how secret or private is an isolated event. For example, what a parent does at home affects their kids who in turn share things with their classmates who then pass it on to their siblings. If one parent tells a child that smoking isn't really as bad for you as the schools say it is, easily twenty children might get this view. + #2 The laws of this state affect what is taught in schools. I believe that this is rightfully done so that the views of individual teachers don't affect the morals taught in each grade level. I do worry however that if the current Gay movement spreads to schools (which I see fully happening if proposition 8 isn't passed showing to the government that voters feel this way) that kids will be taught they need to not only discover who they like but what gender orientation they are. Life was confusing enough for me as a 12 year-old not to have to question if my "proper gender" was male because I got along with boys better and like most things associated with that gender role. I wouldn't want a late bloomer child who might not like girls or boys yet to have that question on their mind. + I also fear that my children will be taught that it is ok to marry (or simply just have sex with) anyone whom you love and loves you. Many women love abusive husbands and boyfriends. Some boys fall for girls significantly younger and viceversa. Some people may be completely incompatible. I want my children to consider who they marry for more than just love, and I want them to value my opinion. + #3 I believe a child has a right wherever possible to be raised by a mother and father. It seems to me that God, and nature (which ever you believe in), dictates this. Now I know that this is not often happening and it saddens me. I actually believe it is selfish when parents decide to split-up because they "just don't love each other anymore". There are times when divorce is necessary but I think too many parents give up on their marriage prematurely. My Dad comes form a large family, which has allowed me to see not only my parents struggle in marriage but aunts and uncles, but they live with it until they can work through it for their kids and they end up having many happy loving times. + I hear many argue that having gay parents is better than having no parents or abusive parents. I agree. However, I think the role of adoption agencies is to find the best possible home for each child, and in my mind that involves a father and a mother. If gay marriage is allowed gay adoptions will not only be allowed, but they may be forced as in Massachusetts. In that state gay marriage is already allowed and the courts have declared that adoption must be equal opportunity; already one of the largest adoption agencies, a Catholic agency, has closed its doors in that state because they are no longer to act within their religious beliefs. I fear the same will happen here in California. When i read the statement from the California Supreme Court allowing gay marriage it stood out to me that they said that gays have a "right to raise children". I believe a child has a right to be raised, no parent ever has a right above that of a child, that is why we have CPS. + We are not flooded with healthy children to adopt, I know people that haven't been able to afford to or have been neglected the opportunity because they were a little too old. Most of the children in our foster care system have been taken from negligent parents (and there is a period of time the parents have to earn them back) or have disabilities (and sadly most parents don't feel they can make that commitment). We have a shortage of healthy cute infants for people to adopt... they should be put in the best homes for them, not what might be "fair" or "equal" for those attempting to adopt them. + #4 I fear that equality in marriage for Gays will be mandated and forced into religion and other aspects of life. In Canada pastors were sued for preaching against homosexuality. Here in California two Christian doctors were successfully sued for not helping a lesbian woman have children (in-vitro planting of embryos, not delivery) even though they referred her to a doctor without religious beliefs that dictated against doing such. The case has gone to appeals of course, but it amazes me that a doctor (or anyone else) can be sued for acting in accordance with reasonable religious belief. I am a member of the LDS church and fear that individuals may sue for a right to be married in a Mormon temple; this is not even a right for members of our faith, it is a blessing and covenant only allowed to members deemed morally worthy who have a firm belief in the power of God and the temple. I fear that like in Canada we will be unable to express religious belief that may offend gays, and that we will be unable to teach against gay marriage. + + I think my views are reasonable and valid. I understand that many others might not view these consequences as bad. If you have taken the time to read this, thank you. This has been working in my mind for some time. I do not want others to hate me because they misunderstand my views, and that is why I wrote this note. I am open for conversation with anyone, just remember I really don't know how to view this without God in the picture. + + --Emily Brown, Student

Front Page/Talk

TomDenton — 2008-08-30 13:53:58

added proposal - scrub chamonix comments

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	+ + = Proposal: Scrub Chamonix Comments = + The Comments section of the [["Chamonix_Coffee"]] page is mainly a lengthy discussion about the evils of the past owners; the new owners are mentioned in the last comment, but the whole discussion just seems irrelevant, and perhaps harmful to a business that is now being run by reportedly very sweet people. --["Users/TomDenton"]

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SunjeetBaadkar — 2008-07-25 13:21:16

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	+ + * Too true...wanna help me with it? - SB

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PhilipNeustrom — 2008-07-25 13:14:51

(quick edit)

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- ''For a specific wiki bbq, adding to the front page is probably fine. I think we'll have more luck if instead of things linking to a semi-neblous "Davis Social Meeting" (which sounds like a ["Davis Friends Meeting" quaker group to me]), you make a page for the Wiki BBQ along the lines of the other BBQ pages in the past?''	+ ''For a specific wiki bbq, adding to the front page is probably fine. I think we'll have more luck if instead of things linking to a semi-nebulous "Davis Social Meeting" (which sounds like a ["Davis Friends Meeting" quaker group to me]), you make a page for the Wiki BBQ along the lines of the other BBQ pages in the past?''

Front Page/Talk

PhilipNeustrom — 2008-07-25 13:14:11

reply to SunjeetBaadkar

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	+ + ''For a specific wiki bbq, adding to the front page is probably fine. I think we'll have more luck if instead of things linking to a semi-neblous "Davis Social Meeting" (which sounds like a ["Davis Friends Meeting" quaker group to me]), you make a page for the Wiki BBQ along the lines of the other BBQ pages in the past?''

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SunjeetBaadkar — 2008-07-23 19:48:00

BBQ?

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	+ + =Proposal: Davis Social Meeting= + + Uh, I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I was wondering if it would be possible to get the BBQ in a more front page location on a semi-permanent basis. I really would like more people to know about it so I'm not alone bbqing there....

Front Page/Talk

JabberWokky — 2008-07-22 20:55:42

rm older ones that are in the past, left some old fossils.

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- = Talk page = - Is there some way we could get an "All Pages" tab on the Front Page? I like it on the Sac Wiki page. - - ''The ["All Pages"] page is basically useless on the Davis Wiki, though, because we have so many pages. It's not a very good way for someone to find what they're looking for, I don't think.'' - - ''Well, I agree somewhat; I usually search for specific topics. But sometimes it's just fun to browse...'' - - It is ["All Pages" still there], just not as a tab. I'm pretty sure it's linked at several points throughout the wiki. -
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- ---- - =Proposal to add best of davis voting= - I want to add the link to the front page, so people can nominate, and eventually vote. Im not so sure where would be the best place to put it though. Any suggestions?--["Users/MattHh"] - ---- - =Globe Graphic=
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- I like the globe on the front page right now but we can't follow their "usage guidelines" which are: - 1. You provide a link back to this website, or acknowledgement of the source, wherever they are used. - 2. You do not offer any of these images for sale, either individually, as a package, or included in any image collection. - 3. You do not offer any of these images for download on your site. They are designed to be used, not passed off as your own. - Those requirements are contrary to our ["copyrights" content license], so we'd have to write "Copyright mapAbility.com" under the images, which would look ugly on the front page. How about someone makes a globe image w/Davis marked on it? I particularly like the blue color, myself. - * I don't like the globe at all. - ["JH"] - * I very much like the globe, in fact it's my favorite contribution. Artistically speaking, it balances the green sign. Practically speaking, it immediately shows people from other places where Davis is. Not everyone that comes to the Davis Wiki is from the U.S., from California, or even knows where Davis is. I think all geographically-related pages should have such a feature. Many times I've been frustrated trying to figure out where a newspaper (whose article I Googled) is located. BTW, we are using it according to terms. They don't say their web site must be visible to the viewer, they just say it must be included, which we've done. --["Users/SteveDavison"] - * Well, I don't totally agree but it doesn't matter. I think that it overcompensates and draws the eye away from the cool sign. And the vast majority of visitors are from California and if they aren't they are sure to find out on their own that Davis is on the west coast. My main gripe besides being an eyesore is that it seems to place Davis down where Hawaii is. I'd prefer a picture like on the front page of [http://www.davisvisitor.org/] - * Is there a way to get rid of the border around the globe? - * We are maybe using the graphic according to their terms (though, the "link back" is quite hidden), but not according to ["Copyrights" our terms]. This means that it is not possible for someone else to redistribute and use the globe, so we have to note otherwise (and, in the raw text isn't a very good way to do this). I think it's got to go, regardless of its artistic qualities, because of this reason -- especially because the front page is so important. It's pretty easy for someone to make a globe with Davis marked on it that looks nice, so I say they get to it! - * The new "globe" (position.png and position2.png) is based on the image from the CIA factbook. To quote their copyright: "The Factbook is in the public domain. Accordingly, it may be copied freely without permission of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)". Philip: can you add xcf to the list of uploadable files so I can upload the original higher resolution and layered source for others to change (same goes for a few other things like the fact check icon)? -- ["Users/JabberWokky"] - * (Note that the above has been replaced by one that Mike came up with... my versions were: [[Image(position.png, noborder)]] and [[Image(position2.png, noborder)]] , while his is [[Image(davislocation.png, noborder)]] ) - * Yep, it's an original vector image based on a raster image from Lawrence Berkeley Labs. The detail one needs more work, I'll update it tonight or tomorrow. Let me know what you think. - * I'm of the opinion the globe+Davis locale is much better of an idea in theory than practice-- this always tends to look a bit pixel-jumbly, and really, what is the purpose? I mean, there's enough descriptive material to define Davis' location. If somehow you could zoom out of the map feature to see Davis in the context of the world, perhaps it would be better.. but right now we have-- it does appear-- a very detailed globe, shrunken, but with the shrinking, the border didn't really anti-alias as its dimensions were defined, and so we have a jaggy map. There's probably a place for a nice big globe somewhere on the wiki, but it seems to overwhelm the front page at present. - * But what would be cool is a universe with earth in the foreground and Davis highlighted.. -["Users/JaimeRaba"] - * Maybe everthing in the picture should be rotating around Davis? Wait, that's just the effect of having lived here too long. Seriously how about if when you click on the image it takes you to a page with a google earth .kml file? Maybe the .kml file could both be a marker, and a dump of the wikimap? -["Users/JasonAller"] - - ----- - With Steve's re-alignment we've got a great deal of white space to the right, along ["Explore"]. We can try and move "Getting Started" up, but it will still look strange because Explore is so long. Think the Getting Started section should be in the table? - Why was the Featured Page realigned anyway? I couldn't find an explanation anywhere. It makes it pretty unreadable when some of the lines from the Featured Page seem to continue into the Events blurb. I think it was a hundred times better before. And I would vote no on putting Getting Started into the table because I think it's important enough to be very visible and go across the entire page. - ["Wiki Community/Proposals"] -- Steve mentioned it there. - - I agree with Mike... having the left column nestle up to the right column made the page more difficult to read. I did like that it gave the Events listing a higher profile, but I didn't find that layout particularly pleasing or easy to read. If the goal was to avoid having to scroll down to see Current Events, was there a discussion about posting Current Events above Explore? If necessary, it might even be placed in a color block to balance the color in the photo that accompanies the Featured Page. BTW: I think the community should have been given greater opportunity to discuss these changes before the front page was edited, but if the goal was to get our attention, that certainly worked! --["Users/AlphaDog"] - - It's close to what I have in mind, but since I can't edit 'Today's Events' I can't make it exact. Move the "Events Board, Recurring Events, other Events Calendars" line out of the Explore page (it doesn't belong there) and put it in the Today's Events page. Delete '(Taken from our Events Board, where you can post events.)' since it is redundant. - - My philosophy is this: Featured page is the finest feature, so it should top and left. Events are timely and second most important, so put them top right. Explore is sort-of related to Featured Page since they are both about exploring the Wiki. Put it under Featured Page on the left. Mystery Picture fits well under Events and will benefit from being slightly higher up. I didn't want to push things too far, but 'Getting Started' might then be moved up into a column under the Mystery picture. It would fit nicely and I feel it would be an improvement there. You could even make the 'Getting Started' text a page of it's own and include it, like the others. - --["Users/SteveDavison"] - - I am reverting the Front Page for now. I strongly feel that the proposed change is not an improvement, and others feel this way. So before we change things, why don't we finalize a design we can agree on using this page. My reasons for disagreeing with the proposed design are above. I think staggering small sections on both sides looks awkward and makes the text very difficult to read. With the current size of "Explore" it deserves its own column without cluttering it up with even more stuff. If we are going to move things around, let's consider redesigning the "Explore" page since it's currently by far the biggest thing on the page. - - It's more aesthetically pleasing not having the Featured Page on the top. --["Users/TusharRawat"] - - ------ - I like the image: - - http://daviswiki.org/dwiki/data/pages/Front_20Page_2fTalk/attachments/davislocation.thumbnail.131.128.png - - but it seems to have been deleted from the front page (only the thumbnail was there). We have the california-centric one: - - http://daviswiki.org/dwiki/data/pages/Front_20Page/attachments/davislocation.thumbnail.131.94.png - - Any thoughts? - This was actually done by me on purpose. I thought having two different views would be more useful here than a small and large version of the same thing. - ''Works fine now, but not with Sycamore, FYI.'' - - ''It's much better at showing the relative location of Davis, but I feel it'd be better if we had one that was zoomed in a tad more. I don't really think that it needs to show California's relative position among the other states as much as it does now. Nevertheless, should we keep it in this style it'd be fine. I definitely like it.'' --["Users/JosephBleckman"] - - I really liked the globe, but it doesn't do much in terms of showing the location of Davis relative to other places in California. Perhaps someone can make a picture of the globe with a zoomed in section? -- ["Users/ArlenAbraham"] - - I am completely against having the map just show California. The reason I created the globe view in the first place is to solve a problem people often have with websites. People search for some topic, go to a page, but find it very hard to figure out where the place is. It is a WORLD WIDE WEB. This means people from New Zealand, India, Australia, etc. are finding our web site. Since the Davis Wiki is a geographically-specific website, it follows that we should make it as stress-free to figure out where in the world we're talking about. I bet not everybody can figure out where we are from a cutout of California. On the other hand, I do believe that everyone visiting DavisWiki.org is from Earth, so a globe is appropriate and ends the discussion of "how far to zoom out". Remember, it is not for US -we know where we are. This is why it is imperative that we think bigger. To think only of ourselves is selfish. Not everyone on this planet knows about U.S. date formats, currency, our time zone, languages, local idioms, geography, etc. This is why we should also give metric units, decimal lat/long for locations, relative currency values, time zones, ISO dates, etc. DavisWiki is not JUST a community resource, it is our showcase to the world. --["Users/SteveDavison"] - - * For what it's worth, I'll add that I agree very strongly with Steve. Anybody who knows the region on the map likely knows where Davis is. Anybody who doesn't gets a quick idea. Iconically, it also ties Davis to the rest of the world. --["Users/JabberWokky" jw] - - * An image is also language-neutral. Anyway, no one thought we ought to just have a map of California -- it's just that mike was expoliting a sort of hack in the way thumbnails work to display both a thumbnail and a larger image that differ. If the original creator of the most former globe (small icon is above) would upload a full-size image I think it'd best to put back up, at least for the short term. --["Users/PhilipNeustrom"] - * I made the most recent globe, and I'll try to find a higher res, although I don't think there's much value in it because it won't yield more detail about where Davis is located. The yellow circle will just be bigger. This is the reason I had two different graphics in the first place. - - ---------
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- =Proposal: Community Alert= - ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot (i.e., I seized the example since they are, by their nature, relatively rare). I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["Users/JabberWokky"] - - * I'm all for it. There should be a discussion about what deserves a Community Alert (missing child, etc.), but what's currently posted certainly qualifies. --["Users/VladLoscutoff"] - * The wiki serves the community. Alerts serve the community. Seems like a natural marriage. --["Users/CovertProfessor"] - - - I think a week seems like a good amount of time to have the word out for this particular notice. Anybody object to removing it? --["Users/JabberWokky"]
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- - =Proposal: East Asian Disaster Fundraising= - I deleted a listing from the events page that was listed as an internet event everyday for the rest of the week. The idea wasn't bad, it just wasn't really an event per say. This was information about fundraising for relief efforts in the recent East Asian Disasters. Namely Burma and China. I created a page ["East Asian Disasters"] copying the information given in the listing. Any way we can post this on the front page the way we did with fund raising and relief efforts for Katrina? I mean I know it's possible and I could do it, but I thought I should propose it here to keep with etiquette.

Front Page/Talk

JasonAller — 2008-07-22 20:14:43

link fixes

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- * I very much like the globe, in fact it's my favorite contribution. Artistically speaking, it balances the green sign. Practically speaking, it immediately shows people from other places where Davis is. Not everyone that comes to the Davis Wiki is from the U.S., from California, or even knows where Davis is. I think all geographically-related pages should have such a feature. Many times I've been frustrated trying to figure out where a newspaper (whose article I Googled) is located. BTW, we are using it according to terms. They don't say their web site must be visible to the viewer, they just say it must be included, which we've done. --["SteveDavison"]	+ * I very much like the globe, in fact it's my favorite contribution. Artistically speaking, it balances the green sign. Practically speaking, it immediately shows people from other places where Davis is. Not everyone that comes to the Davis Wiki is from the U.S., from California, or even knows where Davis is. I think all geographically-related pages should have such a feature. Many times I've been frustrated trying to figure out where a newspaper (whose article I Googled) is located. BTW, we are using it according to terms. They don't say their web site must be visible to the viewer, they just say it must be included, which we've done. --["Users/SteveDavison"]
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- * The new "globe" (position.png and position2.png) is based on the image from the CIA factbook. To quote their copyright: "The Factbook is in the public domain. Accordingly, it may be copied freely without permission of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)". Philip: can you add xcf to the list of uploadable files so I can upload the original higher resolution and layered source for others to change (same goes for a few other things like the fact check icon)? -- ["JabberWokky"]	+ * The new "globe" (position.png and position2.png) is based on the image from the CIA factbook. To quote their copyright: "The Factbook is in the public domain. Accordingly, it may be copied freely without permission of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)". Philip: can you add xcf to the list of uploadable files so I can upload the original higher resolution and layered source for others to change (same goes for a few other things like the fact check icon)? -- ["Users/JabberWokky"]
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- * But what would be cool is a universe with earth in the foreground and Davis highlighted.. -["JaimeRaba"] - * Maybe everthing in the picture should be rotating around Davis? Wait, that's just the effect of having lived here too long. Seriously how about if when you click on the image it takes you to a page with a google earth .kml file? Maybe the .kml file could both be a marker, and a dump of the wikimap? -["JasonAller"]	+ * But what would be cool is a universe with earth in the foreground and Davis highlighted.. -["Users/JaimeRaba"] + * Maybe everthing in the picture should be rotating around Davis? Wait, that's just the effect of having lived here too long. Seriously how about if when you click on the image it takes you to a page with a google earth .kml file? Maybe the .kml file could both be a marker, and a dump of the wikimap? -["Users/JasonAller"]
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- I agree with Mike... having the left column nestle up to the right column made the page more difficult to read. I did like that it gave the Events listing a higher profile, but I didn't find that layout particularly pleasing or easy to read. If the goal was to avoid having to scroll down to see Current Events, was there a discussion about posting Current Events above Explore? If necessary, it might even be placed in a color block to balance the color in the photo that accompanies the Featured Page. BTW: I think the community should have been given greater opportunity to discuss these changes before the front page was edited, but if the goal was to get our attention, that certainly worked! --["AlphaDog"]	+ I agree with Mike... having the left column nestle up to the right column made the page more difficult to read. I did like that it gave the Events listing a higher profile, but I didn't find that layout particularly pleasing or easy to read. If the goal was to avoid having to scroll down to see Current Events, was there a discussion about posting Current Events above Explore? If necessary, it might even be placed in a color block to balance the color in the photo that accompanies the Featured Page. BTW: I think the community should have been given greater opportunity to discuss these changes before the front page was edited, but if the goal was to get our attention, that certainly worked! --["Users/AlphaDog"]
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- --["SteveDavison"]	+ --["Users/SteveDavison"]
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- It's more aesthetically pleasing not having the Featured Page on the top. --["TusharRawat"]	+ It's more aesthetically pleasing not having the Featured Page on the top. --["Users/TusharRawat"]
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- ''It's much better at showing the relative location of Davis, but I feel it'd be better if we had one that was zoomed in a tad more. I don't really think that it needs to show California's relative position among the other states as much as it does now. Nevertheless, should we keep it in this style it'd be fine. I definitely like it.'' --["JosephBleckman"] - - I really liked the globe, but it doesn't do much in terms of showing the location of Davis relative to other places in California. Perhaps someone can make a picture of the globe with a zoomed in section? -- ["ArlenAbraham"] - - I am completely against having the map just show California. The reason I created the globe view in the first place is to solve a problem people often have with websites. People search for some topic, go to a page, but find it very hard to figure out where the place is. It is a WORLD WIDE WEB. This means people from New Zealand, India, Australia, etc. are finding our web site. Since the Davis Wiki is a geographically-specific website, it follows that we should make it as stress-free to figure out where in the world we're talking about. I bet not everybody can figure out where we are from a cutout of California. On the other hand, I do believe that everyone visiting DavisWiki.org is from Earth, so a globe is appropriate and ends the discussion of "how far to zoom out". Remember, it is not for US -we know where we are. This is why it is imperative that we think bigger. To think only of ourselves is selfish. Not everyone on this planet knows about U.S. date formats, currency, our time zone, languages, local idioms, geography, etc. This is why we should also give metric units, decimal lat/long for locations, relative currency values, time zones, ISO dates, etc. DavisWiki is not JUST a community resource, it is our showcase to the world. --["SteveDavison"] - - * For what it's worth, I'll add that I agree very strongly with Steve. Anybody who knows the region on the map likely knows where Davis is. Anybody who doesn't gets a quick idea. Iconically, it also ties Davis to the rest of the world. --["JabberWokky" jw] - - * An image is also language-neutral. Anyway, no one thought we ought to just have a map of California -- it's just that mike was expoliting a sort of hack in the way thumbnails work to display both a thumbnail and a larger image that differ. If the original creator of the most former globe (small icon is above) would upload a full-size image I think it'd best to put back up, at least for the short term. --["PhilipNeustrom"]	+ ''It's much better at showing the relative location of Davis, but I feel it'd be better if we had one that was zoomed in a tad more. I don't really think that it needs to show California's relative position among the other states as much as it does now. Nevertheless, should we keep it in this style it'd be fine. I definitely like it.'' --["Users/JosephBleckman"] + + I really liked the globe, but it doesn't do much in terms of showing the location of Davis relative to other places in California. Perhaps someone can make a picture of the globe with a zoomed in section? -- ["Users/ArlenAbraham"] + + I am completely against having the map just show California. The reason I created the globe view in the first place is to solve a problem people often have with websites. People search for some topic, go to a page, but find it very hard to figure out where the place is. It is a WORLD WIDE WEB. This means people from New Zealand, India, Australia, etc. are finding our web site. Since the Davis Wiki is a geographically-specific website, it follows that we should make it as stress-free to figure out where in the world we're talking about. I bet not everybody can figure out where we are from a cutout of California. On the other hand, I do believe that everyone visiting DavisWiki.org is from Earth, so a globe is appropriate and ends the discussion of "how far to zoom out". Remember, it is not for US -we know where we are. This is why it is imperative that we think bigger. To think only of ourselves is selfish. Not everyone on this planet knows about U.S. date formats, currency, our time zone, languages, local idioms, geography, etc. This is why we should also give metric units, decimal lat/long for locations, relative currency values, time zones, ISO dates, etc. DavisWiki is not JUST a community resource, it is our showcase to the world. --["Users/SteveDavison"] + + * For what it's worth, I'll add that I agree very strongly with Steve. Anybody who knows the region on the map likely knows where Davis is. Anybody who doesn't gets a quick idea. Iconically, it also ties Davis to the rest of the world. --["Users/JabberWokky" jw] + + * An image is also language-neutral. Anyway, no one thought we ought to just have a map of California -- it's just that mike was expoliting a sort of hack in the way thumbnails work to display both a thumbnail and a larger image that differ. If the original creator of the most former globe (small icon is above) would upload a full-size image I think it'd best to put back up, at least for the short term. --["Users/PhilipNeustrom"]
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- We neet to add a Public Safety category to the front page - with links to all of the pages reqarding this i.e. Police, Fire, Yolo County Court, etc. for both Davis and UCD -- ["SharlaDaly"]	+ We neet to add a Public Safety category to the front page - with links to all of the pages reqarding this i.e. Police, Fire, Yolo County Court, etc. for both Davis and UCD -- ["Users/SharlaDaly"]
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- Hello! I suggest that there be a page for "["Grand Openings"]", including the category of businesses. Would someone like to make it? Thanks. --["BruceHansen"] - - How about using the events structure to handle that as any given business is only "Grand Opening" for a short period of time? It also seems to lean a LOT toward using the wiki as unpaid advertising rather than a source of information. --["JasonAller"]	+ Hello! I suggest that there be a page for "["Grand Openings"]", including the category of businesses. Would someone like to make it? Thanks. --["Users/BruceHansen"] + + How about using the events structure to handle that as any given business is only "Grand Opening" for a short period of time? It also seems to lean a LOT toward using the wiki as unpaid advertising rather than a source of information. --["Users/JasonAller"]
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- Also there possibly could be non-business types of Grand Openings? --["BruceHansen"] - - Another way to handle it is like the ["Varsity Theater"] or the ["Bistro 33"] did. Someone makes a page about the business (either the owner, or a wiki denzine) and the page generates activity on the ["Recent Changes"] along the way toward the grand opening. Do you have an upcoming opening in mind, or was this a general thing? -- ["JasonAller"] - - I was initially wanting to highlight the "Grand Opening" for Hometown Chinese Food. I discovered yesterday when talkinng with HCF owner Steve Lee that he had only done the "grand opening' briefly. Generally I think it's a good idea. --["BruceHansen"] - - ------ - - I'm not sure what should be under 'Explore' (or if the word 'Explore' should be changed or how it could be improved). There could be a new general heading under 'Explore' called 'Enterprises' which would include 'Construction'. --["BruceHansen"] - * Right now, there's only a minimal amount of content under ["construction"]. If someone wanted to know about construction it would be available via the search tool, but there's no reason to feature it on the main page at this time. --["BrentLaabs"] - - * Maybe no 'Construction'. What do you think about "Enterprises'? Clicking on it would show 'Construction' etc.. --["BruceHansen"] - - ------ - - Instead of at the bottom of the Front page there being just a link to a 'title index' there shoud be an index ('site index'?) which includes the headings under 'Explore' etc.. This index would include the contents of the 'title index' and could have a link to the 'title index'. --["BruceHansen"]	+ Also there possibly could be non-business types of Grand Openings? --["Users/BruceHansen"] + + Another way to handle it is like the ["Varsity Theater"] or the ["Bistro 33"] did. Someone makes a page about the business (either the owner, or a wiki denzine) and the page generates activity on the ["Recent Changes"] along the way toward the grand opening. Do you have an upcoming opening in mind, or was this a general thing? -- ["Users/JasonAller"] + + I was initially wanting to highlight the "Grand Opening" for Hometown Chinese Food. I discovered yesterday when talkinng with HCF owner Steve Lee that he had only done the "grand opening' briefly. Generally I think it's a good idea. --["Users/BruceHansen"] + + ------ + + I'm not sure what should be under 'Explore' (or if the word 'Explore' should be changed or how it could be improved). There could be a new general heading under 'Explore' called 'Enterprises' which would include 'Construction'. --["Users/BruceHansen"] + * Right now, there's only a minimal amount of content under ["construction"]. If someone wanted to know about construction it would be available via the search tool, but there's no reason to feature it on the main page at this time. --["Users/BrentLaabs"] + + * Maybe no 'Construction'. What do you think about "Enterprises'? Clicking on it would show 'Construction' etc.. --["Users/BruceHansen"] + + ------ + + Instead of at the bottom of the Front page there being just a link to a 'title index' there shoud be an index ('site index'?) which includes the headings under 'Explore' etc.. This index would include the contents of the 'title index' and could have a link to the 'title index'. --["Users/BruceHansen"]
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- * I think the front page is a mess and adding more categories is a bad idea. We don't need a category for every single business in Davis, this isn't the yellow pages. Speaking of messes, this talk page is a mess. Steve, are you done with your realignment? Can we delete the globe discussion? -- ["ArlenAbraham"]	+ * I think the front page is a mess and adding more categories is a bad idea. We don't need a category for every single business in Davis, this isn't the yellow pages. Speaking of messes, this talk page is a mess. Steve, are you done with your realignment? Can we delete the globe discussion? -- ["Users/ArlenAbraham"]
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- * It's a frustrating thing, as there should be just enough "top level" categories to assist people in finding things, but no more... i.e., as small as possible to still be useful. I'd personally say that it's not terribly bad, but the fact that it lines up about as big as the paired information to the right indicates it should not get any bigger; if something is added, it should probably replace something else. -- ["JabberWokky" jw]	+ * It's a frustrating thing, as there should be just enough "top level" categories to assist people in finding things, but no more... i.e., as small as possible to still be useful. I'd personally say that it's not terribly bad, but the fact that it lines up about as big as the paired information to the right indicates it should not get any bigger; if something is added, it should probably replace something else. -- ["Users/JabberWokky" jw]
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- Make the page look more like Google. That is all. --["RadioNinja"]	+ Make the page look more like Google. That is all. --["Users/RadioNinja"]
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- No, no, what I mean is...well, you know how Google is simple? I mean, it's pretty plain and white, but it's professional at the same time. The front page of the Wiki is kind of all around there. It's like, you look two pixels to the left and you're in a new zone. Just make it simple. Have a link for newbies that takes them to a Davis Wiki tutorial page. Hey, someone should create a "Davis Wiki 101" Flash movie! --["RadioNinja"] - * ''You mean like the second paragraph, dead center at the top of the page: "If you're new, check out our Introduction."? That, paired with the entire bottom of the page seems to be good to me. The rest is, like other portal sites like Yahoo (and unlike single purpose sites like Google), pretty well aimed at people looking for things related to Davis, i.e., both visitors with a purpose and visitors looking to poke around.'' -- ["JabberWokky" jw] - * All I'm saying is it could look simpler. Sites like Ask Jeeves are trying to mirror Google in simplicity. I think the Wiki could go simpler. Do we really need an explore section? Can't we have a page with a site map? Or here's a better idea altogether: Do what LiveJournal does in the way that users viewing the Davis Wiki can customize their viewing options. --["RadioNinja"] - * Customized home pages for users is a wonderful idea. The problem is, if you want it done, you have to do it yourself or convince a specific person to do it. The code for the Wiki is open source if you want to contribute. There's no magic "them" to do things like that. The content of the site, the code of the site... everything here is written by people like you. You could convince the entire Wiki that it's a good idea, but until someone like you actually does it, it's just an idea. Everything on the site is there because somebody thought it was a good idea... and then actually did it. -- ["JabberWokky" jw]	+ No, no, what I mean is...well, you know how Google is simple? I mean, it's pretty plain and white, but it's professional at the same time. The front page of the Wiki is kind of all around there. It's like, you look two pixels to the left and you're in a new zone. Just make it simple. Have a link for newbies that takes them to a Davis Wiki tutorial page. Hey, someone should create a "Davis Wiki 101" Flash movie! --["Users/RadioNinja"] + * ''You mean like the second paragraph, dead center at the top of the page: "If you're new, check out our Introduction."? That, paired with the entire bottom of the page seems to be good to me. The rest is, like other portal sites like Yahoo (and unlike single purpose sites like Google), pretty well aimed at people looking for things related to Davis, i.e., both visitors with a purpose and visitors looking to poke around.'' -- ["Users/JabberWokky" jw] + * All I'm saying is it could look simpler. Sites like Ask Jeeves are trying to mirror Google in simplicity. I think the Wiki could go simpler. Do we really need an explore section? Can't we have a page with a site map? Or here's a better idea altogether: Do what LiveJournal does in the way that users viewing the Davis Wiki can customize their viewing options. --["Users/RadioNinja"] + * Customized home pages for users is a wonderful idea. The problem is, if you want it done, you have to do it yourself or convince a specific person to do it. The code for the Wiki is open source if you want to contribute. There's no magic "them" to do things like that. The content of the site, the code of the site... everything here is written by people like you. You could convince the entire Wiki that it's a good idea, but until someone like you actually does it, it's just an idea. Everything on the site is there because somebody thought it was a good idea... and then actually did it. -- ["Users/JabberWokky" jw]
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- Who wants to make a page where people can posts "Looking for roommates" and etc? -- ["JiLiang"]	+ Who wants to make a page where people can posts "Looking for roommates" and etc? -- ["Users/JiLiang"]
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- Can we get a new featured article? the T-shirt contest ended... --["StevenDaubert"] - - ---- - search button is needed in the new format. It is one of the most important things on the wiki. --["MattHh"]	+ Can we get a new featured article? the T-shirt contest ended... --["Users/StevenDaubert"] + + ---- + search button is needed in the new format. It is one of the most important things on the wiki. --["Users/MattHh"]
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- Is the Davis Wiki archived anywhere? I've done a bunch of historical research in Davis for the 1960s, and there's not a lot of info on the day-to-day happenings. We'd be doing future Davisites a favor by archiving the entire wiki once every three months or so. Just store it somewhere for now, no need to put it online until it's a couple years old. --["TedBuehler"]	+ Is the Davis Wiki archived anywhere? I've done a bunch of historical research in Davis for the 1960s, and there's not a lot of info on the day-to-day happenings. We'd be doing future Davisites a favor by archiving the entire wiki once every three months or so. Just store it somewhere for now, no need to put it online until it's a couple years old. --["Users/TedBuehler"]
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- The wiki structure is such that you can roll back entries to any date you wish. In theory, you can make a bit of software to "roll back" the entire wiki to a given date (absent the very few manually deleted bits, like malicious postings of social security numbers and the like). --["JabberWokky"] - - How do I do this? Can I roll back to, say, Jan 1 2006 and see what In 'n Out burger looked like, for instance? --["TedBuehler"]	+ The wiki structure is such that you can roll back entries to any date you wish. In theory, you can make a bit of software to "roll back" the entire wiki to a given date (absent the very few manually deleted bits, like malicious postings of social security numbers and the like). --["Users/JabberWokky"] + + How do I do this? Can I roll back to, say, Jan 1 2006 and see what In 'n Out burger looked like, for instance? --["Users/TedBuehler"]
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- You'd have to write software to do it to the whole wiki, but the Jan 1 2006 In-and-Out entry was at revision 30, which can be viewed [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=recall&version=30 here]. You can also hit the image histories and pull their revisions for that date (just hit the "info" button on entries... the In-and-Out one, for instance, is [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=info here]). Only admins can remove a revision, and I think that's been done under a dozen times in the history of the wiki. I've never done it, Philip removed somebody's social security number that was maliciously posted, if I recall correctly, but it is ''very'' rare. The entire history of the wiki is being preserved with only a few exceptions (the logo and appearance is now being preserved since April 2007). Basically, every edit made is being stored, every entry has a full history, although doing a wiki-wide rollback would require writing software to do so (and as pointed out above, some of the markup has changed over the years, so you'd get exactly what was saved, which might not display the same with the current version of the software... for instance, images used to be displayed with {{{thumbnail:filename.jpg}}}). In short, the data ''is'' being stored, and getting a rough wiki snapshot would be easy... getting a perfect one is possible post-April 2007, I believe (although you'd need a copy of the software history as well if you wanted to display render bugs correctly). --["JabberWokky"] - - Oh, and Ted...''this'' is why it is annoying when you "save, save, save"... each save is creating a new revision in the history of that entry. That's specifically why I suggested to that user that they preview. I didn't suggest it for the heck of it. If it weren't having a negative effect on the readability of the entry histories, I wouldn't care if somebody previewed or saved. It is relatively minor, but confusing the histories is generally a bad idea, especially when new editors are trying to puzzle them out. --["JabberWokky"]	+ You'd have to write software to do it to the whole wiki, but the Jan 1 2006 In-and-Out entry was at revision 30, which can be viewed [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=recall&version=30 here]. You can also hit the image histories and pull their revisions for that date (just hit the "info" button on entries... the In-and-Out one, for instance, is [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=info here]). Only admins can remove a revision, and I think that's been done under a dozen times in the history of the wiki. I've never done it, Philip removed somebody's social security number that was maliciously posted, if I recall correctly, but it is ''very'' rare. The entire history of the wiki is being preserved with only a few exceptions (the logo and appearance is now being preserved since April 2007). Basically, every edit made is being stored, every entry has a full history, although doing a wiki-wide rollback would require writing software to do so (and as pointed out above, some of the markup has changed over the years, so you'd get exactly what was saved, which might not display the same with the current version of the software... for instance, images used to be displayed with {{{thumbnail:filename.jpg}}}). In short, the data ''is'' being stored, and getting a rough wiki snapshot would be easy... getting a perfect one is possible post-April 2007, I believe (although you'd need a copy of the software history as well if you wanted to display render bugs correctly). --["Users/JabberWokky"] + + Oh, and Ted...''this'' is why it is annoying when you "save, save, save"... each save is creating a new revision in the history of that entry. That's specifically why I suggested to that user that they preview. I didn't suggest it for the heck of it. If it weren't having a negative effect on the readability of the entry histories, I wouldn't care if somebody previewed or saved. It is relatively minor, but confusing the histories is generally a bad idea, especially when new editors are trying to puzzle them out. --["Users/JabberWokky"]
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- ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot (i.e., I seized the example since they are, by their nature, relatively rare). I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["JabberWokky"] - - * I'm all for it. There should be a discussion about what deserves a Community Alert (missing child, etc.), but what's currently posted certainly qualifies. --["VladLoscutoff"]	+ ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot (i.e., I seized the example since they are, by their nature, relatively rare). I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["Users/JabberWokky"] + + * I'm all for it. There should be a discussion about what deserves a Community Alert (missing child, etc.), but what's currently posted certainly qualifies. --["Users/VladLoscutoff"]
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- I think a week seems like a good amount of time to have the word out for this particular notice. Anybody object to removing it? --["JabberWokky"]	+ I think a week seems like a good amount of time to have the word out for this particular notice. Anybody object to removing it? --["Users/JabberWokky"]
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- *I think this is a fabulous idea. I am new to the wiki and didn't even know those pages existed, but think they are really helpful. This would make the wiki more engaging. --["EmilyHill"]	+ *I think this is a fabulous idea. I am new to the wiki and didn't even know those pages existed, but think they are really helpful. This would make the wiki more engaging. --["Users/EmilyHill"]

Front Page/Talk

CarlosBarahona — 2008-05-15 15:41:52

Disaster relief on front page proposal.

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	+ + =Proposal: East Asian Disaster Fundraising= + I deleted a listing from the events page that was listed as an internet event everyday for the rest of the week. The idea wasn't bad, it just wasn't really an event per say. This was information about fundraising for relief efforts in the recent East Asian Disasters. Namely Burma and China. I created a page ["East Asian Disasters"] copying the information given in the listing. Any way we can post this on the front page the way we did with fund raising and relief efforts for Katrina? I mean I know it's possible and I could do it, but I thought I should propose it here to keep with etiquette.

Front Page/Talk

JabberWokky — 2008-05-07 14:58:46

Proposal: Active Updates (If anybody objects to this marriage...)

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	+ * Unless anybody objects, I'll toss out a starting version in the next day or so. --jw +

Front Page/Talk

EmilyHill — 2008-04-16 18:07:31

Seconded active updates proposal

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	+ *I think this is a fabulous idea. I am new to the wiki and didn't even know those pages existed, but think they are really helpful. This would make the wiki more engaging. --["EmilyHill"] +

Front Page/Talk

IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 13:40:07

differences in presentation betwixt wishes and needed improvements, suggestion

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	+ + * It's about presentation to people who can do something about it. By placing something in Davis Needed Improvements, you are trying to make a case to the city council (or to whoever has some power over the item) that this is something important that needs to be fixed. If you mix this in with the wish list, someone will look at it and say "They want something that is going to take lots of time and money. I'm going to ignore this." It's easier to get buy-in on something if you keep your request focused and realistic. A lot of the items on the wish list are things that would be really great to have, but if you say "Please fix this bike path. It's dangerous to ride on at night. Oh, and by the way, can we have a new Best Buy while we're at it?", you aren't going to be taken very seriously. If you go to your apartment manager and say "My faucet leaks. Please fix it.", they will probably fix it. If you say "My faucet leaks. Please fix it and I wish that my apartment had plush carpeting, larger windows, and marble counters", will you get anywhere? Probably not. A "best suggestions" list on the wish list is a great idea. But keeping the lists separate provides a good way to provide feedback and requests to the Council for things that they can reasonably accomplish in a short time, and within their power and budget. That's a criteria that very few items on the wish list meet. + + In general, it might be useful to establish criteria lists or suggested improvements for businesses in Davis in general. This would be different from the comments on wiki pages that say "This restaurant had terrible service!" The idea is that there is feedback that might apply to most or all businesses (some random examples: Please allow us to place orders online. Or, please offer WiFi. Or whatever.) This would provide faster feedback than waiting for lots of businesses to make the same mistakes.

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VladLoscutoff — 2008-03-26 12:53:39

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	+ + * But what stops Davis Needed Improvements from turning into the Wish List (and vice-versa)? Who decides whether an item belongs on the Improvement page or the Wish List? I do like the heart of the idea (highlight the best suggestions), but perhaps a section could just be added to the top of the Wish List that highlights the (top 5? top 10?) most realistic and needed suggestions. I just don't see what makes a suggestion Needed Improvements worthy vs. Wish List worthy ... and if a suggestion should be on both pages (which appears to be the case atm), why not consolidate down to a single wiki page? --["Users/VladLoscutoff"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 11:40:20

Yes, I really did mean Arlington, not Anderson. Oops... :-)

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- * I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]	+ * I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and arlington - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]

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JabberWokky — 2008-03-26 11:19:12

Tossing in a quick comment during The Week of Rollout.

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- I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]	+ + * I'll see your "unrealistic" (a point which I agree with) and raise you an "it can't hurt to try". I'll also up the ante by tossing in the point that the wiki is a resource for the community, and this is a novel use that, while likely to fail, is also something that somebody ''could'' (if they really made a real world, non-wiki-only effort) make work. As for a link on the front page, the general rule of thumb has been to link only near complete or at least very fleshed out entries, which would not apply here. I think somebody will trip across this little thread in a year or so, notice that the Needed Improvements project has been dead for a year, merge it into the Wish List and delete this thread. But then, something like that fate hung over the head of many other entries that have wound up flourishing. --jw + + * I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 11:12:18

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- I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc.	+ I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 11:12:05

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	+ + I'm not. I really don't care who maintains the page. I did not suggest adding a bike path to lake and anderson - there is already one there. It's just in terrible shape and needs maintenance in one location. That's a patch that can be applied in a few hours. The wish list is asking for things that would take months or years. They are items of major scale, that require significant work with zoning issues, major construction, licensing, etc. For example, they are requesting a "good" italian restaurant, the return of "Froggy" burgers, an asian supermarket, a skate park, a Best Buy, a new rail system, etc. That's quite different from retiming stoplights, fixing potholes, etc.

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VladLoscutoff — 2008-03-26 10:58:14

$.02 Wish List vs. NeedsImprovement

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	+ + It seems like you're arguing just because you want your own page - there are many suggestions on the ["Davis Wish List"] page that look quite similiar to what you've posted on the ["DavisNeededImprovements"] page. How is a suggestion in the Bike section of the ["Davis Wish List"] to widen the sidewalk between Segundo and the ARC "unrealistic" ... while your suggestion to add a bike path between Lake and Anderson is something that can be addressed now? It's a noble gesture to say that the Davis City Council would use a Daviswiki page as a road map for Davis improvements, but I don't think that's very realistic. --["Users/VladLoscutoff"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 09:43:43

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- The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed. --["IDoNotExist"]	+ The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed. --["Users/IDoNotExist"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 09:43:16

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- The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed.	+ The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed. --["IDoNotExist"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 09:42:45

DavisNeededImprovements is for immediate, realistic issues, not wishes

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	+ + The wishlist seems more like a list of things that we wish could be found in Davis. Restaurants of a certain type, for example. Those are things that would be nice to have, but that aren't really realistic. The idea behind the needed improvements page is that rather than listing things that we wish for, this is a list of things that are things that the City Council can (and should) address now, and that can be realistically achieved or fixed.

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ArlenAbraham — 2008-03-26 09:31:26

wishlist?

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	+ + The wishlist is already linked. See ["DavisNeededImprovements/Talk"] --["Users/ArlenAbraham"]

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IDoNotExist — 2008-03-26 09:17:26

Proposed front page link to DavisNeededImprovements

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	+ + =Proposal: DavisNeededImprovements= + I've started a page ["DavisNeededImprovements"] of improvements that need to be made within the city of Davis itself. These are primarily infrastructure improvements - things that a governing body such as the Davis City Council needs to address, but may not be aware of. The idea is to make these issues easy for the Davis City Council to monitor and respond to, and to make it easy for residents of Davis to post new issues. Issue visibility will also help in ensuring that issues get addressed quickly. This seems like something that would be good to have a link to off of the front page.

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MattHh — 2008-03-16 16:06:19

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- I want to add the link to the front page, so people can nominate, and eventually vote. Im not so sure where would be the best place to put it though. Any suggestions?--[users\MattHh"]	+ I want to add the link to the front page, so people can nominate, and eventually vote. Im not so sure where would be the best place to put it though. Any suggestions?--["Users/MattHh"]

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MattHh — 2008-03-16 16:03:34

best of davis proposal

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-	+ ---- + =Proposal to add best of davis voting= + I want to add the link to the front page, so people can nominate, and eventually vote. Im not so sure where would be the best place to put it though. Any suggestions?--[users\MattHh"]

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JabberWokky — 2008-01-15 15:31:11

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- I'm thinking of moving ["Lost Pets"], ["Roommates Wanted"], ["Where Can I..."] and other 'active engagement' entries to up by events. Are there any others that would make sense? What about Wiki Community, or is that too 'meta'? I'm trying to bring up and highlight the dynamic, continuously updated and/or back and forth entries that are actually being updated on a semi-regular basis (and hopefully by highlighting them they will benefit directly, and they will encourage readers to figure out that they can edit the wiki). Basically, things similar to events in that checking in on them on a semi-regular basis will bring up new things. --jw	+ I'm thinking of moving ["Lost Pets"], ["Roommates Wanted"], ["Where Can I ..."] and other 'active engagement' entries to up by events. Are there any others that would make sense? What about Wiki Community, or is that too 'meta'? I'm trying to bring up and highlight the dynamic, continuously updated and/or back and forth entries that are actually being updated on a semi-regular basis (and hopefully by highlighting them they will benefit directly, and they will encourage readers to figure out that they can edit the wiki). Basically, things similar to events in that checking in on them on a semi-regular basis will bring up new things. --jw

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JabberWokky — 2008-01-15 15:30:16

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- I'm thinking of moving ["Lost Pets"], ["Roommates Wanted"], ["Where do I..."] and other 'active engagement' entries to up by events. Are there any others that would make sense? What about Wiki Community, or is that too 'meta'? I'm trying to bring up and highlight the dynamic, continuously updated and/or back and forth entries that are actually being updated on a semi-regular basis (and hopefully by highlighting them they will benefit directly, and they will encourage readers to figure out that they can edit the wiki). Basically, things similar to events in that checking in on them on a semi-regular basis will bring up new things. --jw	+ I'm thinking of moving ["Lost Pets"], ["Roommates Wanted"], ["Where Can I..."] and other 'active engagement' entries to up by events. Are there any others that would make sense? What about Wiki Community, or is that too 'meta'? I'm trying to bring up and highlight the dynamic, continuously updated and/or back and forth entries that are actually being updated on a semi-regular basis (and hopefully by highlighting them they will benefit directly, and they will encourage readers to figure out that they can edit the wiki). Basically, things similar to events in that checking in on them on a semi-regular basis will bring up new things. --jw

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JabberWokky — 2008-01-15 15:29:49

Proposal: Active Updates

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	+ + =Proposal: Active Updates= + + I'm thinking of moving ["Lost Pets"], ["Roommates Wanted"], ["Where do I..."] and other 'active engagement' entries to up by events. Are there any others that would make sense? What about Wiki Community, or is that too 'meta'? I'm trying to bring up and highlight the dynamic, continuously updated and/or back and forth entries that are actually being updated on a semi-regular basis (and hopefully by highlighting them they will benefit directly, and they will encourage readers to figure out that they can edit the wiki). Basically, things similar to events in that checking in on them on a semi-regular basis will bring up new things. --jw

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JabberWokky — 2007-11-19 12:41:26

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- ''Well, I agree somewhat; I usually search for specific topics. But sometimes it's just fun to browse...	+ ''Well, I agree somewhat; I usually search for specific topics. But sometimes it's just fun to browse...''

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JabberWokky — 2007-11-19 10:42:42

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	+ + It is ["All Pages" still there], just not as a tab. I'm pretty sure it's linked at several points throughout the wiki.

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Davidlm — 2007-11-18 20:48:25

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	+ + ''Well, I agree somewhat; I usually search for specific topics. But sometimes it's just fun to browse...

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PhilipNeustrom — 2007-11-18 18:50:22

reply to question about all pages

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	+ + ''The ["All Pages"] page is basically useless on the Davis Wiki, though, because we have so many pages. It's not a very good way for someone to find what they're looking for, I don't think.''

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Davidlm — 2007-11-18 18:44:17

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	+ + = Talk page = + Is there some way we could get an "All Pages" tab on the Front Page? I like it on the Sac Wiki page.

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JabberWokky — 2007-09-05 22:44:24

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	+ + + I think a week seems like a good amount of time to have the word out for this particular notice. Anybody object to removing it? --["JabberWokky"]

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CovertProfessor — 2007-08-30 10:54:26

go for it.

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	+ * The wiki serves the community. Alerts serve the community. Seems like a natural marriage. --["Users/CovertProfessor"]

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VladLoscutoff — 2007-08-30 09:41:38

comment

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	+ + * I'm all for it. There should be a discussion about what deserves a Community Alert (missing child, etc.), but what's currently posted certainly qualifies. --["VladLoscutoff"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:38:36

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	+ + ''Unless somebody thinks this thread belongs here, it might be a good idea to move it to one of the ["Wiki Community"] sections, as it doesn't actually relate to the Front Page'' --jw +
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- ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot. I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["JabberWokky"]	+ ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot (i.e., I seized the example since they are, by their nature, relatively rare). I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["JabberWokky"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:36:23

(quick edit)

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	+ =Globe Graphic= +

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:36:02

(quick edit)

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	+ =Proposal: Simplify the Front Page=

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:35:02

(quick edit)

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:34:45

(quick edit)

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	+ =Proposal: Explore/Public Safety= +

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:34:11

(quick edit)

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	+ =Proposal: Grand Openings= +

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-30 06:33:26

Discussion

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	+ =Community Alert= + ''Yes, I added it without discussing it here first. Many apologies, as it seemed that if it were discussed first, it would be moot. I'm not sure what level of importance would be needed to put a community alert on the front page, but it does seem to me that there are periodic events that aren't quite Featured Page, but rather warrant something like a Wiki Emergency Broadcast System. In my mind, it would be a section that wouldn't always be there, only inserted when there is an acute need to get the word out about something (lost child, boil water order, etc). Thoughts?'' --["JabberWokky"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-17 10:08:29

Reply to Ted.

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	+ + Oh, and Ted...''this'' is why it is annoying when you "save, save, save"... each save is creating a new revision in the history of that entry. That's specifically why I suggested to that user that they preview. I didn't suggest it for the heck of it. If it weren't having a negative effect on the readability of the entry histories, I wouldn't care if somebody previewed or saved. It is relatively minor, but confusing the histories is generally a bad idea, especially when new editors are trying to puzzle them out. --["JabberWokky"]

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-17 10:03:21

Big long answer too detailed for anybody to really care.

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	+ + You'd have to write software to do it to the whole wiki, but the Jan 1 2006 In-and-Out entry was at revision 30, which can be viewed [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=recall&version=30 here]. You can also hit the image histories and pull their revisions for that date (just hit the "info" button on entries... the In-and-Out one, for instance, is [http://daviswiki.org/In-N-Out?action=info here]). Only admins can remove a revision, and I think that's been done under a dozen times in the history of the wiki. I've never done it, Philip removed somebody's social security number that was maliciously posted, if I recall correctly, but it is ''very'' rare. The entire history of the wiki is being preserved with only a few exceptions (the logo and appearance is now being preserved since April 2007). Basically, every edit made is being stored, every entry has a full history, although doing a wiki-wide rollback would require writing software to do so (and as pointed out above, some of the markup has changed over the years, so you'd get exactly what was saved, which might not display the same with the current version of the software... for instance, images used to be displayed with {{{thumbnail:filename.jpg}}}). In short, the data ''is'' being stored, and getting a rough wiki snapshot would be easy... getting a perfect one is possible post-April 2007, I believe (although you'd need a copy of the software history as well if you wanted to display render bugs correctly). --["JabberWokky"]

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TedBuehler — 2007-08-17 04:00:54

(quick edit)

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	+ How do I do this? Can I roll back to, say, Jan 1 2006 and see what In 'n Out burger looked like, for instance? --["TedBuehler"] +

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PhilipNeustrom — 2007-08-16 17:57:50

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	+ + Something else to think about, from a long-term archivist point of view, is that there are a few things that change like logos, overall site design, and features that won't always make the "roll back" a perfect fit. A historically-fit archive would have to include the software's history, too (the source code repository).

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JabberWokky — 2007-08-16 17:12:30

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	+ + The wiki structure is such that you can roll back entries to any date you wish. In theory, you can make a bit of software to "roll back" the entire wiki to a given date (absent the very few manually deleted bits, like malicious postings of social security numbers and the like). --["JabberWokky"]

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PhilipNeustrom — 2007-08-16 17:01:43

reply to ted buehler

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	+ + The plan is to allow for regular "dumps" of the wiki to be downloaded by folks, and then let those folks archive the data as they wish. This is like what wikipedia does.

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TedBuehler — 2007-08-16 13:43:02

Added suggestion to archive the wiki

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	+ + ---- + Is the Davis Wiki archived anywhere? I've done a bunch of historical research in Davis for the 1960s, and there's not a lot of info on the day-to-day happenings. We'd be doing future Davisites a favor by archiving the entire wiki once every three months or so. Just store it somewhere for now, no need to put it online until it's a couple years old. --["TedBuehler"]

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JasonAller — 2007-04-01 23:23:15

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	+ * see ["Wiki/April Fool's Day, 2007"]

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MattHh — 2007-04-01 11:58:54

where's the search button?

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	+ + ---- + search button is needed in the new format. It is one of the most important things on the wiki. --["MattHh"]

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StevenDaubert — 2007-03-10 02:19:37

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	+ + ---- + + Can we get a new featured article? the T-shirt contest ended... --["StevenDaubert"]