InfoInfo ArticleArticle

This page presents the following issues:

  1. This page is being used like a facebook page by the business. Promotional language is used: "With more than 10 years experience, John tackles every problem in no-time. Whether your computer has viruses, is giving you blue screens, won't turn on at all or if you like to have a home-network, a new videocard installed or if you want a custom build computer, John helps you out." Basically, we've crossed the line here and are PROMOTING a business, in violation of our guidelines.

  2. JeroenPost added a web bug, tracking visitors to the page. WTF? I removed it for now.

Discuss. —WilliamLewis


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2012-02-06 09:17:33   Outreach for the win! But yeah, I agree that the language is quite promotional. Outreach + rewrite = resolved, I would think. —TomGarberson

2012-02-06 09:29:21   [WWW]Fix it!CovertProfessor

2012-02-06 09:58:14   OK, I'm working on it. —JeroenPost

2012-02-06 10:12:50   Ok, I fixed the text. I think it is suitable now? About the hitcounter. I found all kinds of counters on the wiki, usercounter, pagecounter, (see here: [WWW] But the only thing I could not find was a visitorcounter for an individual page, so I offered some of my free time to program one to be used on the daviswiki. I think more people would like this on there page.
You can find some details here: [WWW]
I was not quite finished, you can't login yet. I hoped to do this in the next hours, but if you don't allow it on the wiki I'll remove it. Sorry for the inconvenience, I hoped to help some people out who wants a simple counter.

If I cant use the visable one, may I use an invisable one on my page? —JeroenPost

2012-02-06 10:27:30   Good fixes to the main text of the entry! I think some of the photo captions could still use a little work. Thanks, John, I really appreciate the work you're putting into making the page conform to wiki guidelines! Incidentally, I like the looks of the home office a lot. The little lounge room looks really cool, with the computers and snacks and whatnot.

Regarding the counter, I honestly can't explain very well why I don't like it... it just kinda rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just resistant to change :) —TomGarberson

2012-02-06 11:24:49   My link to the SNL video was meant to be funny, hope it didn't come across the wrong way... anyway, I just picture these counters cropping up across the wiki, and then, what's the implication if one page has more hits than another? A certain computer repair shop that shall not be named would have had a very high hit count, but not in a good way... —CovertProfessor

2012-02-06 17:32:14   As a reply of: 2012-02-06 09:16:44 Hi Tom, thanks for you comment. I think you are right about the hitcounter, I didn't thought of it that way. I was just curious about the amount of visitors, and figured out an easy way to track it and to make it available for other users too. I agree it is not a good idea to show the hits on the page itself, but what about an invisible counter? Everyone with a little knowledge of a web-programming-language can mask a counter in an external image and use the statistics for themselves. The only way to stop that is to disable the use of external images, but I can't think of a reason to do that. Thanks for you positive approach! —JeroenPost

2012-02-07 08:54:39   Hitcounter tracking is lame. External images are lame. Vast majority of images are (and should continue to be) non-external. —EdWins

2012-02-09 09:59:42   I sure would like a counter/tracker. You get much insight into how people use the Wiki and you can make improvements along the way. If for instance a lot of people visit "Davis Occupy" or "John Pike", you can see it. You can see what's apparently 'news' and what is hot. I would like to know where people come from visiting Davis Wiki. I write Dutch articles about Davis/NorCal, and I would like to see if people use my links (I refer to Davis Wiki ☺). So please, can we reconsider this? —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 17:27:34   Hope that something is possible and we all can agree on it. To see from which country visitors are, and to see what is 'hot news'... Finger on the pulse of things helps to improve Davis Wiki! —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 18:48:40   It's a great way to determine your Return on Investment (ROI) for the time put into maintaining your presence on Davis Wiki. It allows people to focus on results, not frittering away effort into content that does not drive eyeballs. You can test various wordings for the best impact that drives people to your site and/or business. I enthusiastically support this idea as a way to maximize results. —JabberWokky

I do understand and respect the nature of this great website. Since my english is bad (and articles would be terrible to read), this was my way to "contribute" to the wiki. If you may ever need someone to work on the wiki who knows PHP, I will gradly help you out. —JeroenPost

2012-02-09 21:09:14   JabberWokky, so you were ironic about this? I still would like to know where visitors come from, maybe only from Davis, Sacramento and surrounding areas or maybe worldwide? We are Dutch, so forgive us if we miss the sarcasm, because we only met friendly people in Davis so far and we are still learning. ;-) —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:18:12   JW, I think you don't understand where we are coming from. I didn't really like your sarcasm, because one can misunderstand. I really would like to know how this Wiki is used, wouldn't you? Do you have visitors from France? ;-) Anyway, I stop this, it's not my initiative, so discuss this with my hubby. —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:21:34   I don't really see a problem with invisible hitcounters. I don't think it is completely outlandish to have a gauge for telling if a page has enough incoming links and is being found and read. —ScottMeehleib

2012-02-09 21:25:10   "I didn't intend it to be sarcasm, and I have a cold clutching feeling in my chest when I see you were hurt. I genuinely and sincerely apologize with total horror that I might have insulted you. It was not my intent. I really did not think anybody could have taken it seriously. -jw "

JW, now I'm really afraid you are being sarcastic again? Please write what you mean in future to Jeroen and me; not everybody knows in an instant what you mean, because they know you so well. —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:27:25   "Ah, my intention was parody, but the two are closely related. The idea of Return on Investment for a resource freely built by volunteers is a silly idea. There is no motivation for website visitors, only real world community. The two are different things. There's no reason to create General Merchandise and Grain other than it was personally really cool to find an old telephone book that covered the town when it had single digits. Very few other people care. But if everybody does that, it creates something far different than an organized effort to document something. The wiki creates serendipity and cultivates happy accidents through a multiplicity of personal urges rather than trying to be a "good website". There's an important difference between that and a metric driven website. -jw "

You sure know how to put it into words. Still, I would like to know. ☺ —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:29:52   My take: Sometimes, pages are created that very few people care about. Maybe they lie unedited for years. Maybe someone stumbles on one and smiles. Maybe someone finds it interesting and edits it a bit. There are so many pages on the wiki, on topics big and small. By letting as many flowers as possible bloom, we create the most comprehensive view of Davis possible. I value the less visited pages as much as the well traveled ones, if not more. Those who are interested will eventually find their way to pages of interest, when they have time to look. We do not need to direct traffic or boost traffic. —CovertProfessor

2012-02-09 21:28:37   @ cp How do you know when JW is being sarcastic and when not; are you a psychic? ☺ —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:38:05   @ CovertProfessor Who was talking about boosting traffic, or not appreciating less visited pages? I was not. I share your opinion totally! My hubby came up with the idea and I still don't think a modest tracker is such a bad thing. It should not get in the way, but it keeps you in touch with your visitors. For instance: if you notice a lot of people coming from France on a certain day and know what they are looking at and for, you can update better with related news (from France or...) And I link to Davis Wiki in my Dutch articles and would love to know if this generates Dutch traffic to Davis Wiki. Now we are in limbo. —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:43:18   @ CovertProfessor Thank you, we are new to Davis Wiki and Jeroen (John) and I missed the initial ironic overtone. We were a little shocked by it, true, because Davis is such a friendly place. JW explained it and I guess everything is clear and alright now. Anyway, if there is no consensus, the idea must be abandoned. —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 21:49:37   @ CovertProfessor "not by trying to "give the people what they want." That too is not what I meant; I mean to know what's going on and why. We are not all psychics, a little help is nice. Of course I think Davis is a friendly place, we just missed some initial irony here (and there is a difference between irony and sarcasm, sorry for using both words interchangeably). —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-09 22:11:04   Hi Covertprofessor. So you see, language is difficult and multi-interpretable. Are you a language teacher by the way, or something related? I meant it like this: if there are some developments in France that have to do with Davis, CA, and people on Davis Wiki wouldn't know about it (it could happen you know), you will learn that through this tracker. It sheds light on what's happening in the world and Wiki. You could improve information with it, by elaborating. But Jeroen (John) has responded too, and I think and hope you all understand we are just a modern Dutch couple, that loves to keep a finger on the pulse. Occasional habit ;-) —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-10 08:39:26   @ CovertProfessor. You still misunderstand me. I am not exactly the type who wants to give people what they want. I am an autonomous and interested in honest information. Please take a look at my Twitter account to see what I mean (my profile text). I am just interested in up to date information and what better way to do it, then to know what's happening on Wiki. —ConstantiaOomen

2012-02-10 08:44:33   @ JW/Evan Edwards "My name is Evan Edwards, and my phone number is (814) 889-8845. Call me and I will apologize to you directly, sincerely and totally. I am absolutely honest when I say I have a horrible feeling in my gut that I hurt you. I am not sarcastic at all. It is not in my nature, and I abjectly apologize for any slight, misunderstanding or hurt I have caused you. -jw"

Thank you, no need to call, I believe you. But your little parody was at the expense of John, and then I have this need to say something. ;-) —ConstantiaOomen

You stopped the project for now ;_; I for one am on the JabberWokky boat in the case of the mysterious hit counter, also Alistair Overeem is Dutch, do you guys follow his exploits? Daubert

2012-02-11 11:10:25   @ Daubert Never heard of the guy 'till you mentioned him. But I am not that much into physical kickboxing. Mentally kickboxing suits me more. —ConstantiaOomen

Any objections to closing this talk page? The issues were 1) the page was too promotional [resolved] 2) whether a hit counter should be used. [Consensus indicates it shouldn't, and none has].

2012-06-26 09:08:36   I think it can be closed. —JeroenPost

2012-06-26 09:23:55   I think it can be closed. —jefftolentino

2012-06-26 11:16:01   I just did some minor cleanup on the page to make it more like other pages, but I agree that the issues raised here have been resolved and that this Talk page can be deleted. —CovertProfessor

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