Target Debate

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proposed_target.JPGSign located at the proposed site

The proposed location of Target in Davis will be at a location known as Second Street Crossing.

    1. Small Town
    2. Mace Ranch
    3. Stuff to Buy
    4. Local Business
    5. Travel and Distance
    6. Target Sweatshops
    7. Right to Build
    8. Other Arguments
    9. Yes on Target
    10. No on Target
    11. Jobs
    12. Considerations

Small Town

I love how Davis is small, and I can get anywhere without driving, but it is missing something essential: a store worth shopping at. Aside from grocery shopping, which I do mostly at albertsons for the convenience of the self checkout, I usually have to go out of town if I need something. Sure, I could probably find it somewhere in town, but it would either be from a large chain with huge markups, or a mom & pop's that seems intent on screwing me in the ass for some reason. I'm not poor, in the derogatory sense people use it around here, but I live on a budget, and paying an extra few dollars for every item I buy just doesn't make sense. At the same time, I don't feel good going to woodland or dixon every time I need something. This new Target could alleviate that. I understand the sympathy for local businesses, but if you need to have no competition to succeed, there may be something wrong with your business model. That is all. - GarrettTiemann

I don't want a big box store in Davis. It kills the whole idea of being a "small town". - RaynatoCastro

While Cost Plus is a chain, they pander to the inner-yuppie in us all. Target is where poor people shop, shesh. - PhilipNeustrom

"Poor People" do not shop at Target. Shopping at stores like this is a way for people to save $$$. To say that they are "poor" for doing so, is just plain ignorant. I go where I need to to get what I need without wasting $$$. This is how I keep from being "poor". - Aaron.Curtin

What do you mean davis has too few stores to serve its population? People have enough crap as it is. - MarieHuynh

Target will come. Cars/trucks/SUVs returning home from bay area jobs to Sacramento will follow. The city of Davis will get property taxes. Smaller more locally owned businesses will disappear. Davis residents will purchase heaps of things at amiable prices. Target execs will get rich. Target employees will pay rent, own a used car, and have barbecues. Third world exploitation will continue at a violent rate. Local and global environments will be degraded. Life will go on along its socially, economically, and environmentally unsustainable trajectory towards some sort of collapse. Charge!

Mace Ranch

I find it wonderfully ironic that people in Mace Ranch are concerned about their quality of life being adversely affected by the building of a Target when they live in what is easily the ugliest, most unwanted development ever to be foisted on the city of Davis. I only wish it were a Walmart or something even more heinous - an adult superstore, prison, feedlot, - something like that. PaulThober

Here's the deal about Mace Ranch and Target. I moved here from San Pablo, just to give you a prison/feedlot reference, in 1998. I didn't want to live in Mace Ranch, I wanted to live in the country with a few acres and no Davis cops, Volvos or cell phones. My wife however, wanted a new home so Mace Ranch is where we ended up. Before we moved in, I checked out the area between my back fence and 2nd street. Guess what, it's zoned light industrial. I can live with that. Light industrial is quiet, low traffic and goes to sleep every night at 5pm or so. Great. Furthermore, after we moved in, we went to a planning committee session. A couple of new Mace Ranch neighbors had the audacity to suggest some changes regarding zoning. They were told, and let me emphasize this, IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, that the general plan was crafted by years of work by longtime residents and it WOULD NOT be changed to accommodate upstart Mace Ranch residents. Well, foolish me, I took that to mean that the back forty behind my house would stay light industrial forever. I guess Ruth missed that meeting. So don't lay the NIMBY rap on me and my neighbors. We knew the rules and played by them when we moved in. And if we happen to enjoy the burrowing owls and coyotes in our backyard, remember that YOU are the one that would rather have about 20,000 yards of concrete, 500 SUV's and the associated snotlings, shopping carts and pavement instead of them.—GrumpyoldGeek

Not only that, he shows the worst kind of NIMBYism while implying that Mace Ranch residents are guilty of it. Look, we didn't approve Mace Ranch, it was approved on his watch. We didn't have any input on the deal. I HAD to move to Davis for business reasons. I'd certainly prefer not to offend the likes of Mr. Thober with my feedlot house if I had a choice. —GrumpyoldGeek

Mr. Geek, I certainly have the excuse of lack of wisdom, but whether I can claim youth is a matter of perspective. I can't show any NYMBYism as I don't have a back yard or any other kind of yard. And yes, I will cast the charge of NIMBY against the Mace Ranch residents. The developer, Mr Ramos, chose to disregard the wishes of the people of Davis. The present residents of Mace Ranch and their predecessors chose to support Mr. Ramos by purchasing houses out in that wasteland. We got a monstrous, ugly development forced upon us. The least you people could do is accept a little thing like Target. Believe me, it will fit right in. PaulThober

Sour grapes. If you truly held Ramos responsible, you'd oppose his Second Street Crossings project. Instead you hold the residents of Mace Ranch responsible, most of which had never heard of Romos until well after they had moved in. I understand, you being a woodworker and all, not liking the styles of the houses or the street layout or the size of the development, or the walls, but not liking the people of Mace Ranch? Where'd that come from? Do you even know any of them? —GrumpyoldGeek

The only way you could apply some hypocracy to Mace Ranch residents is if they were Davis residents before Mace Ranch was built, supported the development of Mace Ranch, moved to Mace Ranch, and now do not support Target. I think those individuals are few and far between. What you have are residents of Davis whose first homes were in Mace Ranch. They weren't here for the growth debate. Mr Thober, I'm not sure what you expected people to do- not move into Mace Ranch? Create a nation-wide boycott to stop anyone from purchasing a home in Mace Ranch? Target would be a useful store in Davis, but its location is less than satisfactory. JimSchwab

Stuff to Buy

I could use a target right now. People need their reasonably priced tube socks, towels, toothpaste, deodorant, etc. - JaimeRaba

People have to drive (burning fuel) to Woodland, Sacramento or Vacaville to obtain things that people need on a daily basis at a reasonable price. It is in fact what people do, so why not spare the air and put in some establishments that will keep tax revenues in our cash-strapped county? - JaimeRaba

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA... the truly cash strapped should stop wasting money on the car and BIKE more often. Then they'll have more money to buy stuff they really need. Anyone who can afford a car can afford the basic necessities. Target has a lot of JUNK. Those are not necessary to keep one alive. We have stores that sell food and they usually have other basic things people need. I have no car and do not go to Target but am still alive and well. Let those that can afford extra junk go the little bit of extra distance. Besides, Yolo County includes Woodland and West Sac - MarieHuynh

No. See, by cash strapped county, I mean Yolo County has difficulty providing social services because it has a big population and not a big tax base. So they raise money primarily through taxing business. I think Prop 13 also negatively impacts this, because it sort of takes property taxes out of the mix. So, West Sacramento and Woodland's increasing amount of industrial complexes do provide somewhat of a tax basis, but then again they also have a lion's share of financial need. And one thing that is absolutely clear is that Davis students ALREADY go outside the county for their major purchases. So instead of spending money in Davis at the places openly criticized as being too expensive, they go elsewhere. And these are places you cannot bike to. Davis ALREADY has a big set of box stores that nobody really thinks of. In addition to the Cost Plus that mars the dorm-centric area of Davis, Davis also has several "box" car dealerships and "box" gyms and "box" auto repair shops. I think if one of these boxes (preferably in the mace/chiles area) held a store that would be more profitable to the inhabitants of Davis in terms of tax revenue and maybe actually giving them some value-priced merchandise, it would beneficial to all. -jr

When I think of major purchases, I think of computers, cars, and houses. I'd rather not have people buy lots of crap here or anywhere else, period. We don't NEED it. I don't care if it's cheap. And I really don't understand why students go and pay for memberships to gyms when they have a brand spanking new ARC. - MarieHuynh

Marie Huynh- People can buy whatever they feel like buying regardless if they NEED it or WANT it. If you are so insensed on people buying only what they need, I am sure multiple computers, pets, etc. also falls under the category of stuff "we don't need". Your opinions seem to only apply to what you think of others and not yourself. As for the Target issue, a couple "big box" stores will not hurt the so-called "small-town" appeal of Davis. Target is a matter of convience for cheap stuff. However, with the addition of more stores such as Walmart, Sams Club, Home Depot, etc. the balance between local business and large-scale retailers will negatively impact the small stores. - AshleyOrsaba

People need food, soap, shampoo, toothpaste, clothing, etc. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. And they waste tons of money buying it in Davis. In fact, I think the reason why students eat out so much, is because the supermarkets' mark-ups are so high. And if you need to buy a can opener? What do you do? You buy it at a 1000% markup at Safeway or Riteaid. It's not good. As far as gym membership, I think it's mostly people who don't have access to the ARC, or those who need 24-hour gym acess. Hey, you didn't even know there was a 24-Hour Fitness! - jr

Yes, most people eat out at restaurants because Safeway is so expensive. That logic is so crystal clear that I think I will request that UCD give you an honorary degree. And can opener? Ever hear of Ace Hardware? I hadn't - that is why I got flogged at Rite Aid for $2.50. I so wish I had a Target-like store that sells them off at 22 cents each because I find myself needing to add one to my shiny collection nearly every week! But 4realz - Ace has almost everything that Target does and it's downtown. Get over it!

Just think!! Soon there will be a big box store in every town in America! What beauty! We can get all of our food, unneeded consumer goods, clothes, and anything else we even slightly desire under one big roof. Hear that

Local Business

that is all the workers in free trade zones who made this stuff so happy that we are buying and buying that cheer in the back ground, that’s the sound of Target shareholders jumping for joy while Mom and Pop shops close in Davis. Oh convenience that is just what we need that will make things so much easier for US!!! This community does not need this place their stuff is cheaper because it is easier for big box stores to flood markets, get goods cheaper, while ignoring the people who made them, other local businesses, and the community they ‘serve’. Have it your way

we’ll stop by Starbucks to get some coffee and get McDonalds on the way home from Target k?? Your cheap sox are well worth all of the environmental degradation, cheap abused labor from all over SE Asia, Africa, and the Americas, and the sadness of decades old mom and pop shops closing in ever town in the US. How convenient!
Okay, this really needs to be on its own page by now. However, a few thoughts. I agree that people are consumeristic to disgusting proportions. But you can't BOTH say that "hey waste fuel and drive to woodland," but also don't build a target nearby because of how it causes 3rd world countries to underpay and otherwise exploit their employees. Pick one. The fact of the matter is that Davis is a town that sells a lot of trinkets ("gifts!"), food and little else... there's really no DIRECT competition with Target. Their biggest direct competition would be with big chains like Rite Aid and Longs (and Grocery stores to some extent)— didn't you notice? Davisites "import" just about everything. Target is a much better choice than Walmart because they tend to care a bit more about impact upon 3rd world countries—as well as greater selectivity in choosing its merchandise. They're not perfect however. But I think Target would be a good fit for Davis. But it just needs to be put in the right spot. —JaimeRaba

Hey.. Better Target then Walmart. Either way, I think we could use some large all-purpose store. I don't have a car; I'm not biking over to Woodland, Dixon, or Vacaville to buy clothing. The "Mom and Pop" stores simply don't provide men's clothing. Gap? You have to be kidding me. Think I'm going to pay a ridiculous price for a label? Personally, I root for a Costco; good employee benefits and good prices.

What about using target.com for socks if you feel you must have cheap ones and not burning gas or forcing davis to have a big box?
If you buy it from target.com you have to sign up and give them personal information. Then you have to pay extra for shipping. And gas is still burned by someone. UPS is burning gas to deliver the socks to your house. Most importantly, neither Yolo County nor the City of Davis recive any tax revenue. When people travel to Woodland, their tax dollars go to the city of Woodland. When people travel to Dixon, their tax dollars go to Dixon and Solano County. - ArlenAbraham

Putting a Target in Davis would put a lot of the local stores that supply similar goods out of business, namely mom and pops like Ace Hardware, Longs Drugs, The Gap and Office Max. LeightonHinkley

Target rocks. Who gives a crap if local businesses go out of business. if they can't compete with a bulk goods store, then obviously they have nothing worthwhile to contribute to Davis except overpriced crap. Target donates money to local schools too. Think of the children. ApolloStumpy

AS: (think of your children when they are working in a sweatshop owned by China jackass) DudeNude

Um....maybe the people who work for the local businesses, the people who shop at the local businesses, and the people who OWN the local businesses? You try working for Target, I can tell you first hand that it wouldn't be nearly as nice as working for a small independent business. — BonnieStewart

Well, if a target comes to town, then fine. Davis has been screaming about the potential death of downtown for years. Borders was going to do it, Cost Plus was going to do it, etc... It seems to be the rallying cry. "Save our downtown with its pricey boutique shops that students rarely visit." Then they wonder about sales tax leakage. Davis is no longer the small college town it once was. In other news, I saw a sign on Road 102 near Interstate 5 in Woodland stating that they would be opening a Costco and Target at that location. So the mall target will probably close down when that happens. -RogerClark

I would be completely against a target, if it didn't have a niche in this market. Some things don't need to be high quality, they can just be cheap. Unfortunately there's nowhere in Davis that gets nowhere near this kind of goods. Ace gets close, and the products are high quality, but generally a good deal more expensive. My concerns about these businesses are less their global effect, eventually their business practices will turn around and bite them in the ass as places unionize, but more the damage they do to American communities. 10 years ago, a target would have been awful in davis, and would have retarded severely the growth of downtown. Today though, Downtown is a different place, and can stand independent of the cheap wares of target. I would rather shop at a local business, but unless one can fill the niche that target is filling, I don't see why capitalism can't just take it's course here. Char George

I am still undecided about whether or not I would want a Target in Davis. I think that it would dramatically change the town, and may create a "broken window" effect that would make it easier for other big box stores to come to town. I really don't want this to happen. On the other hand, I think that Davis is losing a lot of tax revenue from people who go to stores like Target in other towns. My biggest gripe is the cost of clothing currently available in Davis. Last night I was walking around places downtown and it almost put me over the edge. All the clothing stores in town other than Gottschalks are "Boutiques" that sell only $90 tank tops and $300 jeans. I understand that the Naked Thread is all organic or sustainable, therefore worth their price, but at most of these places, the only reason behind the price is the brand. It's ridiculous. Also, most stores in Davis don't sell my size (XL-XXL). Whether it's at Target or not, I'd love to be able to shop for clothes in Davis and find something in my size that I can actually afford. -Janelle

One thing people need to realize is that there currently is a limit to how large a retailer can have their store in Davis. I believe it is somewhere around 30,000 square feet. To make it worth their while, Target would require approximately 100,000 square feet. If Target does get built, laws that had prevented previous big box outlets from coming in will essentially be null. Regardless whether you are in favor of Target being built, I'm sure that we can agree that we don't need a Wal-Mart, K-mart, and Kohls. Repealing the law will make it infinitely more difficult to do so.

Allowing Target to be built will prove problematic. What if they were to rework their store somewhere along the lines of what Ace has done?-JustinLanska

Travel and Distance

You know all i got to say is that the Target Corp moving to davis is a horrible idea. there are 3 Targets within 18 miles of downtown Davis. They are probably going to close the Woodland one soon (Woodland Democract said that)... Have you thought about what that is going to do to the people who depend on those jobs... are you now going to be happy cause you can buy your crappy free trade imported crap and cheap process so someone making not even a living wage can drive form woodland, davis, west sac, dixon or somewhere else and sell it to you. their labor practices are horrible. they are building it next to a god damn EPA Superfund site. that's right, we can now buy some crappy crap right next to one of the most toxic clean up sites for a hundred mile radius. Big box stores suck, and if you went to the city council meetings, you woudl know that the tax revenue that we would get from the TArget does not add up because of increase in law enforcement, zoneing changes, etc... we would make between 40,-70,000 dollars as a city, which means nothing with the ammount of new traffic lights, cops, security, and cultural lameness that comes along with a Target. People need jobs, but not ones that keep you down, selling crap, not having medical or dental (full time only and they limit the number of those), and NO living wage. Think about what you REALLY need, WHERE all the imported consumer crap (all that GMO and corporate food and plants too) comes from, and if this is something that will actually benefit us as a town or community in any way... by the way if you need a can opener, borrow a neighbors or go to ace, or use a knife. don't be lazy, be creative... - blessings...

I will admit to being underslept (my bed deflated last night), but I will share an anecdote about going to Target by Yolobus. I don't have a car, and I needed to buy an air mattress today (and didn't want to pay what my other chainstore option Big 5 would charge, which was $20 more). And going to Target by Yolobus turns a minor errand into a 2-hour errand, since the schedule is such that you're going to be in Woodland for about 70 minutes, whether or not you want to. This wasn't much fun. I'm sure it's very easy for folks with cars to take them to Woodland, and my errand would have been about 40 minutes (drive, buy single item, leave). But 2 hours is a bit much. -dan brown

I initially started to read this page as a Yes on K voter and after reading the "Considerations" section further down, I have changed my mind. I have a suggestion for those that feel greatly affected by the transportation issue. Maybe a solution would be to create a ride-share program if unable to find a friend to car pool with (maybe even on wiki) for those that have the occasional desire to shop at Target since the route to the new Target though city streets would probably burn almost the same amount of gas as going to Woodland on hte highway (and the slight difference would be negligble if people car pooled anyway). I have to say that I have and probably will engage in Target shopping elsewhere and in the past I was able to share rides with friends since I didn't own a car. The idea of a store that is as large as two football fields is scary to me. I come from San Jose which is a prime example of poor city planning with huge chains and franchises wiping out any character or creativity. I originally was under the impression it was going to be a regular store and NOT an "Oh my god! I'm a huge consumering American" store. Foolish me. Heather Witt

The problem of riding the bus to Target in Woodland is that the bus winds around in Davis before heading up to Woodland. If you ride your bike to the last stop in Davis before it heads out of town (or take unitrans), then catch the bus for the 10 miles to the first stop in Woodland (you can even take your bike on the bus), the trip is actually much shorter than an hour ride. This seems doable since you would consider riding all the way out to Mace Ranch to shop at the Target there. - SharlaDaly

Target Sweatshops

Target should never be allowed in Davis. Their support of sweatshops and cheap labor made goods cannot be forgiven. —TobinJones

Right to Build

Why should the citizens be allowed to decide whether or not a Target is built? Is it really our place to tell Target that they cannot build their complex of stores? I agree that we should not support a target, and boycotts would be something I would take part in and even help organize, but I do not think that it is our place to tell them whether or not they can build a building. I think that the proposition shouldn't have been put on the ballot; the citizens should not make zoning decisions, that's what we elect city officials to do. StephenHudson

Other Arguments

Stupid lazy lower class people! take the bus to woodland if you like target and walmart and stop with your bitching and endless mindless debates. Do we really need two targets, two walmarts within 10 miles of each other. Quit whining and go ask your parents for enough money to buy a car. Pathetic. You are all transient residents of this community and poor stewards as such. Here is an idea! try stop thinking about your needs for one freaking second and think about what is best for the community you live in. You should know that shitting where you eat is a bad idea, even if you will only be eating here for 4 years. DudeNude

Yes on Target

The opportunity is here, and may get shut down if more people don’t speak up to say “YES! I want a Target in my town.” Don’t leave the decisions up to the nay-sayers…

Meanwhile, the Target Corporation is getting serious about moving into Davis, establishing [WWW]http://www.targetindavis.com/ to promote their new store.

1. Speak to City Council: June 13

2. Email your City Officials from [[WWW]http://www.targetindavis.com]

[WWW]Target Debate

[WWW]No on Measure K supporter stealing a Target sign.


No on Target

Dont_Big_Box_Davis_Sign.JPGSign in the window of a business downtown

On November 7th, Davis residents will vote whether to allow a 137,000 square foot Big-Box (Target) store and four additional unnamed stores comprising 46,000 square feet onto Mace Blvd and 2nd Street, in Mace Ranch.

This project flies in the face of Davis General Plan that limits retail to 30,000 square feet and specifically calls for neighborhood shopping outside of downtown, not regional. A store of this size will dominate retail and cause store closings downtown and in neighborhood centers.

The zoning change required will break faith with the Mace Ranch neighborhood. The traffic, pollution and crime that the center will create will affect quality of life throughout Davis. Furthermore, hidden costs to support this development will offset the tax gains Target promised while wooing the City Council.

Go to [WWW]http://www.DontBigBoxDavis.org/ for more information. Keep our city special instead of supporting "me-too" retail sprawl.

Jobs

Try asking him about the lowest income wages again. :) I mean, um, there were more Dewes hyjinks tonight. —JosephBleckman

Typical. —TobinJones

And how exactly does a lack of Target keep Davis "special and unique"? Thats BS, there are big box stores here, one more won't kill Davis, since the only possible competition is ACE, another big-box! -AllisonEriksen

Considerations

A) There are already many places in Davis to buy things like toothpaste, soap, etc. including but not limited to several Safeways, 2 Longs drug stores, 2 Rite-Aid drug stores, two Nugget Stores, and at least a dozen 7-11 type stores (not to mention the COOP).

B) Cost Plus or the World Trade store or whatever they are calling it now occupies what was an already existing building in the downtown area.

C) Corporate Stores like Target, Home Depot and other BORGS (as well as most of the smaller chain stores) are playing the "world domination" game, constantly merging, absorbing each other, reorganizing and/or going bankrupt. In the meantime, their goal is to create a string of stores no further apart than 20 miles so that no one has to travel more than ten miles to get to one.

D) These stores mostly carry crap products which can be sold for less than their higher quality counterparts, creating the illusion of low prices. In addition, because these stores buy in such high volumes, they can dictate how products, even "brand name" products can be packaged, further enhancing this illusion. For example Costco (formerly Price Club) used to sell a case of 24 12 oz. bottles of Martinelli's Sparkling Apple Cider. But at some point, without any "fanfare" those bottles "shrunk" to 10 oz. The package looked the same, was the same size and sold for the same price but the customer was getting 48 oz. less of juice, the equivalent of four of the original 12 oz. bottles. Tactics like this are the standard for these companies so don't be deceived into thinking that by patronizing them, you are getting a better deal. Do the math and you will see what I am talking about.

E) When OSH opened their Woodland store, there were three independently owned hardware stores in the town including the much loved Cranston Bros. All three disappeared within a year. When Staples opened their store, there were two very good office supply stores which also very quickly went under which, along with the hardware stores, left gaping holes in the downtown that were eventually occupied by mattress stores, el-cheapo furniture outlets and the like. This is already happening in downtown Davis.

F) None of the major problems we now face are going to be solved without some "sacrifice". Until we stop thinking that everything we want must be within easy reach, we are not going to fix anything. How many times has the argument been made that it is wasteful to have to drive ten miles to Woodland to go the Target Store? Give me a break! It's only ten miles! If you live in West Davis, it will be three miles to a "Mace Ranch" Target and most of that will be "stop and go driving" which will use far more fuel than hopping up to Woodland on 113. And god forbid that you suggest taking the bus or ride sharing! Anyway, even if one is not concerned about fuel waste, it's going to be cheaper to pay five cents more for your toothpaste in Davis than to burn a gallon or more of gas driving to Woodland.

G) Buying clothing is an issue in Davis but it's not going to be solved by Target. Personally, I think we should be encouraging vendors who are willing to maintain smaller outlets in the downtown. For example, the "Discoveries" building with it's 6,000 sq. ft. could have easily housed a clothing store. So could the old City Hall building which, instead, is now home to yet another "yuppie" bistro.

H) Ever since the people of this country ceased to be referred to as "the people" and were "re-packaged" as "the consumer", we have been sinking deeper and deeper into the pit. The truth is, we don't need 90% of the crap we buy. We are truly "consuming" with our willingness to play into the hands of the corporate giants by allowing ourselves to be suckered into buying shoddy products that will not last any longer than the pitiful "90 day warranties" we get with them. I for one hate shopping. If I need a pair of pants, I want to buy a pair of pants that is going to last as long as possible, takes a few resources as possible to produce and that I don't have to deal with a herd of giant butts shoving around shopping carts full of Coke and potato chips while listening to Muzak versions of Barry Manilow songs to get. We simply MUST understand that an economy based on consumption and growth is the antithesis of sustainability as are stores like Target.

I) We keep hearing how the City of Davis needs the tax revenues generated by big stores. But one has to wonder just how much of this money is really needed and how much of it is simply being used to turn Davis into one big strip mall. I refer to the completely unneeded new "cop shop", the ridiculous Pole Line road "improvement" project that resulted in those stupid planter islands full of freeway bush and trees that will only make it harder to see the oncoming traffic, and the most recent fiasco, the phony brick "blurps" that were added to the major downtown intersections which resulted in much more traffic constriction (due to the loss of the "right turn lanes"), difficulty in accessing the four corner parallel parking spaces and an actual net loss of parking spaces. Maybe I could throw in the giant video cameras mounted on top of the "parking snarfer" vehicles. Too hard to reach out there with the chalk stick is it? Is this stuff really needed? I don't think so. I hate to have to be the one to point this out, but this stuff does not represent progress. It is simply represents the ultimate expression of conspicuous consumption, not exactly what a "forward thinking" community like Davis should be promoting. —DavidDeCristoforo

The proposed target store is 137,000 sq ft, larger than Wal-Mart in Woodland and the size of 2.4 football fields. The entire project covers 19 acres and includes 46,000 sq ft of other undisclosed retail, but the Target is the heart of the matter. If K passes, this giant Target will be Davis' first Big-Box store. Big-Box means one-stop shopping for low priced, low quality goods; it is always auto-dependent with massive parking lots and freeway access; it provides low wage jobs and promotes sweatshop labor overseas; it is predatory and drives smaller shops out of business; it is the exemplar of rampant sprawl, consumerism and cultural homogenization. Some people are OK with all this as long as Big-Box delivers convenience and price, but a growing number of Davisites find what we are being asked to give up too high a price for cheap socks.


One of these Meassure K activists (pro? con? I don't care) sent an automatic-dialer poll to my cell phone. Isn't that against some law of some sort? — MichaelGiardina

It might have sounded automatic because of the tone of the voice of the speaker. After calling a few hundred people the activist will start to speak more automatically in the phone. I can tell you that the Yes on Measure K do not do automatic calls and I think it is against the law in certain circumstances. —SteveOstrowski

No on K has never done a phone poll. I can guarantee you of this because I'm the treasurer of the campaign and we don't have that kind of money. Ye$ on K are the only people doing polling right now for this measure. There are two donors to the Ye$ on K campaign (I'm sure you can guess the first one) Target and Ziegler Associates for a total of $30,100. As of 9/30/2006, Ye$ on K has racked up $120,000 in unpaid bills (see dontbigboxdavis.org for reports). No on K has over 250 donors and $18,000 in total donations all from community members and The Sierra Club. In addition, if Ye$ on K is so "Green" why is The Sierra Club endorsing NO on K?! Also if they are so "Go Green!" why are they waisting fossil fuels by driving trucks around with billboards. The only "Green" I see here is the money that Target will be making and sending to Minneapolis. -DebWestergaard

I know first hand that Yes on Measure K people will send voice mails that may sound like a computer because on occasion I sound like a computer or automatic message. Also I would like to point out that the Sierra Club will never be satisfied until all human construction is at a halt. This Target store is only one of a very few selected by LEED and if this building is environmentally unsound then all are. —SteveOstrowski

You don't get "selected" by LEED. It's a certification level. There are 4 levels of LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) that exist and Target is offering to build the lowest and minimum level (Certified). If UC Merced can build an entire campus of "Silver" level LEED, then a multimillion dollar corporation can definitely afford to build the highest level as well. I see you're a Christian Democratic Party Speaker and it's truly ironic that you support Target. Since 2004, Target has given $100,000 to Citizens to Save California, which worked to qualify the governor's initiatives for the special election ballot, and $210,000 to the governor's California Recovery Team, which supports Schwarzenegger's political aims. Target also spent $250,000 to back a referendum that erased a law that would have required many California businesses to provide health care for their workers, and $100,000 to the California Business Properties Association, another of Schwarzenegger's backers. [WWW]http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/23/BAGDKEBPA71.DTL BTW, that's Greenpeace not Sierra Club that wants human construction halted ;-) Just as a friendly note, please check into all the facts not just convenient ones before posting about this very important proposal. -DebWestergaard

Target is supported by a great many Christians in the Davis area and I know first hand the generosity of Target stores to Christian and secular charities and projects. You seem to imply that the governor's proposals are not Christian in which case I would like to explore those reasons on another forum. I do not believe that Target is a Christian issue other than the fact that many Christian students and families do support Target and as such I would like Measure K to pass. Also it should be noticed that the high ranking officials of LEAD and Student Focus are also for Target passing. —SteveOstrowski

A bit off "target" here [snicker], but I'd like to qualify the Sierra Club comments; the group was pretty vehemently opposed to just about every proposed dog park site including one pre-approved by the City five years earlier. While I can't say that they want "all human construction halted," this is one former environmentalist who has found Sierra Club to be a bit over-zealous in protecting land from virtually *all* uses aside from birding. —AlphaDog

I returned home one day from a friend's house to find a "Yes on K" sign on my lawn, which was put up without my permission. I live on Anderson and I've been told that my lawn is a great advertising space. I just think it is really classy to put a sign on someone's private property without their permission. —EnirytManaen

If I see any of you anti-Target people there shopping for so much as a battery, I'm calling the police. It's like the vegans who wear leather belts and give you the "It's already dead and I'm not wasteful" excuse. It's like being a militant athiest then banging on the gates of heaven with tears in your eyes. It's like shaving your head and getting an SS tattoo, then seeing a hot Jew. You're gonna be bummed out when you need a tubesock. — JoshFernandez

For the love of god, someone make an "I <3 Child Labor" sign to put around town. We need them to defeat this unquestioning senseless corporate jingoism. — ChristopherMcKenzie

The proposed Target in Davis has nothing to do with other corporate practices in Third World countries. That's like saying that every employee of Target is somehow supportive of child labor. —SteveOstrowski

I am not against the idea of having a Target store in Davis. I am against the idea of having a 137,000 square foot Target store in Davis. I recognize that Davis residents need some of the things that Target can provide, and I also recognize that a lot of tax revenue bleeds to other cities when people have to go elsewhere to get these items. But that doesn't mean we need to start bringing in overly-huge megastores. We have successfully integrated many reasonably-sized chain stores in Davis — Cost Plus, Borders, Dollar Tree, etc... I would much rather see a reasonably-sized (eg. 80,000 sq ft) Target with a couple of smaller stores next to it than an enormous Target with only one other store. I will be voting NO on K. —AlexPomeranz

Well the deal is that if this fails other corporate stores will not want to run the chance of trying to enter Davis and it will be years before Target or other stores will try. Also your argument is about size, a store that is on the eastern side not hurting anyone within most of the city. Bigger size means more products and more availability. It's like you can't say that I will disapprove of this large store but approve of another smaller one. This is it, whether or not to have a Target in Davis, not a debate over it's size. The debate over its size was dealt with a long time ago when the city send this development to the voters. —SteveOstrowski

ChristopherMcKenzie

**I'm glad people expressed their fears, worries and opinions on here in regards to this Big Box store. Personally, It would have been better to have built this closer to downtown at reduced size - but where? I can't think of a place that can accommodate such a thing, not even something small like 50k square feet. I'm sure its there, and I'm sure it would have been a better choice. Alas, what is done is done. But it is laughable that anyone could argue against the "I don't want to drive 10 miles to Woodland" argument. In fact, the RT is more like 20 miles and I'm glad I don't have to drive 20 miles to go to a store that offers the products that Target does. Between Target and Savemart, I don't need to go to Dixon nor Woodland anymore for grocery and personal needs. That is A. Saving me gas money. B. Saving me time. C. saving on emissions.

I like to look at th 3 smaller keywords on the campaign signs

preserve our community, neighborhoods and downtown Vs. Choice. Funds for davis and sustainability

funds for davis is $2 per person, not that great in the grand scheme of things, choice on where to shop? go down poleline and go to that target when the close the CFM location to move it next to the costco that will be there.
Can someone tell me what sustainability means in the sense of target, that it won't close?
My first instinct was to vote against it and I'm not going to second guess myself. Even if target panders to Davis with it's leed building —StevenDaubert
oh and howcome the council still pushes the issue on the voters when all the committes save the development one disprove of the idea?
I look at people on the don't big box site and I see Sue Greenwald, Julie Partansky, Ken Wagstaff, Mike Harrington, Stan Forbes and Lamar Heystek. All these people represent the values that I see in Davis and have been demonstrating there view thru politics for some time. I would trust them quicker then I would trust Puntillo.

Thanks for reading and voting. -KarlMogel

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