Tom Waltz/Talk

This page is for discussing the contents of the Tom Waltz page.

Should we direct people who search for the term "miget cop" to Tom Waltz's page?

Brent thinks the page should show a comment that allows searchers to find the page if they search for the word "miget." Most everyone else doesn't think this is necessary. By my count, we've come full circle here — the original debate was about the redirect "Miget Cop," which is how we usually associate other names to pages.

It is important that people who search for this term find the page simply because this term is the only way some people know him. Otherwise, some users won't find the information they're looking for. They might even recreate the page under the original name. —WilliamLewis

I would concur wholeheartedly. —StevenDaubert

• I feel the marginal cost of having an insulting redirect to Waltz's page exceeds the marginal benefit of sating peoples' curiosities about him. —Joseph

• Yet it is a derogatory term. What about my solution of eliminating the term as a link (altogether) and if the wiki gets complaints because someone can't find him by searching for m****t cop then come up with another tactic? best of both worlds. By the way, what was his response? Personally, the insult of having that term far outweighs the ability of someone who is searching for that term to find Tom. You've already sentenced him to the town characters list and he is linked to the police page. If someone wants to find him they will have ample opportunity. There is absolutely NO reason to have that derogatory term linked to Tom on this site. Mike Waltz

• One thing I think that's been missed in this discussion is that many people don't know that the term midget is considered derogatory. I didn't know before this discussion started, and based on the wide use of the term midget it appears like a lot of other people don't know this.
  

• There was some consensus about the need to educate the community about lesser known derogatory terms used against groups of people. But, after seeing the current edit war going on in the article, I don't think commenting in the term onto Tom's wiki code seems to be the best way to educate. An equivalent example would be adding gook as comment on the article describing me, knowing that many people might not understand that gook is also a slur. Alternatively, we could create an entire page referencing all recognized derogatory terms so that everyone can be clear on what should not be used to describe people. I understand that the term "midget cop" has been used in local folklore and artistic expression, but we should try to document this in a more progressive manner. - Paul Amnuaypayoat
  

• Do many people refer to you and only know you as "gook"? Are there web articles about you referring to you solely as "gook"? Do you appear in summaries of Davis as a highlight of the city under the term "gook"? That's the case in this instance. Incidentally, it would be much more appropriate for your example if you were being called a "kraut". Tom isn't actually a midget, but the term is in common use. Heck, even moving beyond potentially insulting terms, I doubt you'd like being referred to as a "German-American" all the time. Nobody involved in this discussion has ever suggested calling people names. They've only advocated being honest about what ignorant people are already using as a common term. Acknowledging it as insulting and inaccurate. (The latter part you seem to not even have been aware of, which is another point toward it being a good idea to have a brief and simple writeup on the entry). —jw

• The point that he is making is that it is a derogatory term, and it is wrong to justify linking it to him by just because people use the term (that we all have agreed is derogatory) I like his alternative suggestion-mw
  

• So the job of the wiki is to educate the masses? I had never heard of "midget cop" before the Wiki. I found it on that stupid "Town Characters" page (the one where people would stalk angry old ladies wearing visors and homeless people with walking problems - what characters!). I guess you guys don't ever consider that you're not "bearing witness" to derogatory behavior - but possible perpetuating it? But sure, it's always a good idea to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Because that's exactly the kind of audience that will, upon learning that the "midget cop" is indeed a real person (I guess he was a myth, before?) will go "Oh... look, he learns Tae Kwon Do. We were wrong to call him a 'midget'." - jesse
  

• Is there a politically correct way to indicate his height? I'm trying not to sound like an asshat, but seriously... Maybe I'm just ignorant, but I've never known any other way to do so. It doesn't seem much more politically incorrect than saying someone is black. Eh, this pile of wobbly giblets that used to be a horse has been beat to death long ago, but just in case someone who knows checks here, please let me know so I can stop being ignorant. —MasonMurray
  

Good grief, people. -MaryLieth

Okay, I have been thinking about this, and speaking with a few people on this entire drama, and it occurs to me, its silly. The ill associated with the words 'midget', 'dwarf' or 'eflin' aside, we will just consider them descriptive terms for being short. Now the argument for the inclusion of this word seems to hinge on the fact that a short cop is a rare thing, for clearly declined reasons that it is at least believed that they have a physical difficulty to overcome in achieving their status as an officer of peace, just as we take special notice of Lance Armstrong as a bicyclist who survived cancer. There is a general belief that his height is a mark against him and something that must be overcome to do his duty. As such, people may argue that taking note of this is even a praise for his achievement.
However, on the same note, does anyone remember the image of a cop at the donut shop, not very fit, an overweight cop would still have similar disadvantage. That example may be countered because it isn't genetic, but what about old cops? wounded cop? giant cops? what about near-sighted cops? Shouldn't we consider them just the same, having to overcome some perceived physical challenge? Admittedly one may have glasses, but one cannot be younger, unwounded, or shorter, and it is very hard to loose weight. So this calls into question the very reasons why him being short really is something worth noting.
Well, it could also be that it is statistically unusual, a curiosity in a curious college city, something unusual to take notice of as one might in a circus. If that is the case, then really I begin to question the entire purpose of the 'town characters' page, etc. are they just curios for the town, because that wouldn't be so cool. But now I am getting to the question of "what ought be included on the wiki".
The site introduction refers to this as "a place to record Davis culture, places, spots — everything!" and that this information "...will be helpful or insightful to others..." though that 'rule' is flexible, the point is that this is an information resource of and for the community. Now, lets consider the current question, should we call Officer Waltz a midget, even in comment, regardless of the ill will borne by the word, I am not sure if that information is either helpful or insightful, or relevant to the community.
There is only one way I can see it being reasonable to identify the Officer in question by his stature, and that is if we had listings of every officer, no matter how normal, and then sought means to identify them be appearance, then his height seems a relevant note. However, as for search terms, without the word midget on the page, I expect that typing midget cop will still show him in appearance or at least the page on the police, then it should be a simple matter for someone to find the page on their own. I show up in ever search for a 'swimming pool' or even 'swimming pool hours', I think that 'cops' will show up with searching for 'midget cop' or 'short cop' etc. so I think this argument is relatively unfounded.
Now lets count here, excluding the ill will of the word midget, it isn't useful nor relevant, nor insightful, and thus it really doesn't seem to matter much to me, heh, that is the conclusion, I don't give a damn about it being a wiki, and I don't think anyone should really, unless they really want to press the guy, if someone wants it off, it should be. ~David Poole (now I am late to class)