This editor can edit this entry and tell us a bit about themselves by clicking the Edit icon.
Comments:
Note: You must be logged in to add comments
2010-12-01 10:54:36 Howdy Taylor, and Welcome to the Wiki! My name's Evan, pleased to meet you! Thanks for updating the community page about Theta Xi, but I noticed that you keep removing the contributions of other members of the community. I was wondering if there was a reason for that? There was a talk page discussing the exact same edits made by somebody else awhile back, and they never gave a reason either, which led to the page about Theta Xi getting locked from editing. Given the fact that most people are pretty keen on retaining at least most of those comments (several are by people who are wondering why they were removed), it might be a good idea to discuss that edit before just removing them. —Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards, (814) 889-8845
2010-12-01 09:08:49 I moved them to the discussion page. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-01 09:15:24 Also, as for removing any other contributions. I updated the current officers, and added the previous officers to the appropriate section. As for the one comment I deleted when moving all comments to the discussion page, it is now back in place on the discussion page, and viewable to any who please. We would like to clean up the main page and leave any discussion and non formal information to the appropriate page. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-01 09:26:54 Also, I do not appreciate your attempted deletion of the comments moved to the talk page and your assumption that they were moved "randomly." If there is a problem with moving old comments (some years old) to a more appropriate page, then it is hypocritical that your personal page has a link to view old comments. —TaylorTorrence
As for that, there's a fundamental difference between a page about a place in Davis on a website that is first and foremost an informational resource for the community of Davis and an individual's user page. Users largely have control over their own user page—as distinguished from a "Person page" for local figures. Note the difference between, for example, Rob Roy and RobRoy. The former is about him, the other is his page. If he tried to make any changes to Rob Roy that removed information—particularly negative information—it would be reverted because it's not his page. He's free to do what he wants with his user page. —TomGarberson
2010-12-01 09:27:38 Generally, a /Talk sub-page is for a meta-discussion of the content on a given page, rather than for discussing the subject of the page. That's what the main page is for. If there's information about the subject of the page in the comments, the comments belong on the page about the subject. —TomGarberson
2010-12-01 09:32:20 Is there a written rule for this? Your response appears to be ad hoc, and even if this is the "generally" practiced format, it certainly does not demerit exceptions. The "Talk" page's existence implies that discussion of the subject belongs there. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-01 09:35:22 No, they are used for editorial discussion. When you create one, the default content is "This page is for discussing the contents of <pagename>", with the main page automatically inserted. I can understand the confusion. They are also typically deleted after the discussion is completed. Also, when I reverted your changes, I was careful about going back in an readding the edits you made regarding the officers. I'm pretty sure I got all of them; I apologize if I missed one or two. —Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards, (814) 889-8845
2010-12-01 09:40:29 Have a look at the Welcome to the Wiki/Business Owner page. The information there is specifically about business pages, but the basic ideas hold true for any sort of organization. —TomGarberson
2010-12-01 10:21:29 @ Tom's comment regarding the business page: First, Theta Xi isn't a business. Second, since that page is subject to edit and manipulation, I do not deem it a credible guideline, even if I were to deem it germane in the first place, which I do not for the previously stated reason. Therefore, unless there is a formal, non-editable page explaining the guidelines for non-business organization pages such as this and the working "rules" of the nature of comments and talk pages, I don't find your comment to be appropriate to this discussion whatsoever.
As for your other comments: Theta Xi is not a place. The Theta Xi Fraternity house at 515, First Street is a place. Theta Xi, however, is an organization which is comprised of and only comprised of individuals. Also, I don't particularly care what would happen to Rob Roy if he removed information from his page, because I don't intend to do any such thing, I intend to move discussion of Theta Xi to a more appropriate forum for such things, as to clean the page regarding the subject and sweep away all the chaff which make the page less aesthetically pleasing, more convoluted, and more difficult to navigate.
Now to stray away from such a formal response, I'd like you to know that on a personal level, I am insulted by your comments and feel that you do not understand the deeper consequences of this page and its contents. I would appreciate the change to speak with you in person, amicably of course, to discuss this in a peaceful manner and to address certain issues not appropriate for discussion online because I would rather keep my personal information fairly limited on the web. If you refuse to such a meeting I would request at least a phone conversation. I don't feel that this is too much to ask, since I noticed that you live in Davis. I would also like the chance to speak with Evan Edwards in person, but that seems to be a geographical hardship and therefore a financial impossibility for me. Perhaps I could speak with him on the phone, but since this message is directed at you, I'll address him more directly in another comment. My email address is aueft@comcast.net. Please contact me regarding my offer. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-01 10:23:50 @ Evan. Please contact me, because I would like to speak with you over the phone regarding this page, your comments, and actions. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-01 10:25:54 My phone number is posted in the signatures of several of my comments here. You are always more than welcome to call at any time. I'll be in Davis next year for a wedding, and would be happy to share a table with you at any cafe in town. —Evan 'JabberWokky' Edwards, (814) 889-8845
2010-12-01 10:28:14 Do not continue to put those comments back on the talk page. Talk pages are for discussion about the contents of a page and not about the subject of the page itself. If you want to continue to restore off topic comments to a talk page, I will continue to delete them. You're wasting your time. —WilliamLewis
2010-12-01 10:30:04 Furthermore, I will continue to undo any further deletions you make to Theta Xi. You are out of line and wasting your time if you continue to remove information from that page. —WilliamLewis
2010-12-01 10:46:36 Taylor, every page on the wiki is editable (except Recent Changes, I think). There are no hard-and-fast rules, in part because the community hasn't seen fit to create them, and in part because they tend to lead to rules-lawyering and the need for ever-increasing complexity as people try to work around them. For example, if I were trying to lay out rules, rather than explain a concept to you, I would now have to amend the rule to say "place, organization, institution, person, concept..." You get the idea. No one here has an interest in trying to do so because it's a waste of time, and because it only invites people to try to abuse what's written.
Instead, we have a set of norms, traditions, and etiquette. The core principle underlying the entire set of standards is the concept that each page is community-owned and community-maintained, with the goal of providing a useful resource about everything in Davis for the community. One result is that, just as a business owner doesn't get to control content or direction of a page about that business, the representative of an organization (you) doesn't get to control content or direction of a page about that organization. You can try, but community consensus rules around here. If you want to try and convince the community that your version of the page is better, I would suggest doing so in a friendly, collaborative manner, rather than an aggressive one.
I'm sorry if you're offended by my attempts to explain the way the Wiki functions. I think you'll find, though, that it's a lot easier to deal with people if you try to work with them when t hey're trying to help you sort out how things work.
I doubt I'll have a chance to meet face-to-face in the next few days unless you happen to be in Sacramento around lunch time one day, but I can talk by phone at some point. 559-355-5814. —TomGarberson
2010-12-09 17:05:51 Taylor if you keep deleting the comment before community discussion reaches consensus (which is going mostly in your favor btw) you'll make enemies out of people who hate your activity, if not your intentions. Just be patient and talk to people. It'll do more good for your cause. —OliviaY
2010-12-09 23:27:07 Well, it seems we have a disagreement because I don't want it up there longer than it needs to be. I don't see any reason why it can't be down until you all reach a decision about whether or not it should go back up. I don't particularly like your action of insisting that a false accusation about me and my brotherhood stay up for all to see. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-09 23:32:16 Taylor I restored it so that someone other than you could remove it. I realize that must sound strange but from my time observing the wiki I have found that after discussion, when a more established persona removes a controversial comment, the community on the wiki doesn't object. This way now when Tom or Evan take down the comment rather than you, other people are going to feel less threatened by it. Crazy sounding as it is, it tends to work.... —OliviaY
2010-12-11 08:56:01 @ Olivia, whatever works. You should all find something more interesting to do than police Daviswiki. Have fun with that. —TaylorTorrence
2010-12-11 11:14:17 Taylor - That attitude is what makes you win the douchebag fratboy award. If it weren't for us people who take care of the wiki, it wouldn't be the site it is. —OliviaY
